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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jan 3, 2019 18:28:26 GMT -5
Isiah Thomas. The Past. Harvey Weinstein. You said he knew? He says he didn't? You got proof or maybe access to one of Bondy's inside sources? Media attacks on those critical to him? The past. In fact he did a nice interview with ESPN you ought to read and then maybe this conversation can go forward. Stefan Bondy is still a sleezeball and you have Jason and I all wrong but go ahead. Read the article. Then let's discuss it. BTW, he does defend his Anucha Brown-Sanders decision to go to trial.
Dolan Unplugged
The past? The man in an interview last month still denies the verdict. I did read the interview and you and I once again arrive at totally different conclusions. I came away from the interview viewing him worse than I ever did before. sports.yahoo.com/many-hypocrisies-knicks-owner-james-dolans-interview-espn-221622847.htmlThe many hypocrisies of James Dolan is an apt title for that interview. You and Jason and disagree and we are not going to arrive at common ground. Jason dismisses Marv Albert because he is a registered sex offender, but rationalizes away Dolan's defense of a convicted workplace sexual harasser in Isiah Thomas. Dolan insults women like Maggie Gray and by extension his female fanbase with his defense of Harvey Weinstein and Isiah Thomas, but you can only see the betrayal of public trust by the New York media. So, no, we cannot reach common ground. The best we can do is to agree that neither side is above reproach. Where in the world did you see me rationalize a sexually harassing work environment from James Dolan. Please provide link and screen shot. I will put my reputation on the line if you can and it isnt photoshopped. You are now putting words in my mouth, and if we are to remain friends I'm just going to have to stop engaging either you on this topic or take a break from this board. That's what I get for posting at work. Now I'm pissed that my 20 plus year old friend is typing words and sentiments I never posted. When did I bloody ever say I condone James Dolan and his role in the Anucha Browne Saunders fiasco? It's one thing when you and Bill clash over semantics and misquotes but I am even more black and white than most people, a d you have twisted what you FEEL Dolan means to me. Hours ago you said I was like Trump and now I condone a sexually harassing environment. Hey Gates, RX, TRENDSETTA, BILL, IGGY, PEARL, WARWIZARD ANYONE , please help Nic find where I said this BS hes accusing me of and I'll gladly tip my cap and leave. You're mad my opinion of some scumbag beat writers dont align with yours and now your just all over the place with the insults. I am livid.
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jan 3, 2019 21:35:01 GMT -5
I figured you wouldn't be able to find anything Nic.
Dont ever make an accusation of someone if you can't visually provide proof.
I'll be waiting for my apology. You turned a blog post about a hack job sportswriter and turned it into a personal agenda about Dolan and no one mentioned Dolan but you.
For whatever reason you are calling Bill and I sympathizers with what went on like 10 years ago when you can't find any evidence of your claim anywhere on this site.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 21:40:09 GMT -5
The past? The man in an interview last month still denies the verdict. I did read the interview and you and I once again arrive at totally different conclusions. I came away from the interview viewing him worse than I ever did before. sports.yahoo.com/many-hypocrisies-knicks-owner-james-dolans-interview-espn-221622847.htmlThe many hypocrisies of James Dolan is an apt title for that interview. You and Jason and disagree and we are not going to arrive at common ground. Jason dismisses Marv Albert because he is a registered sex offender, but rationalizes away Dolan's defense of a convicted workplace sexual harasser in Isiah Thomas. Dolan insults women like Maggie Gray and by extension his female fanbase with his defense of Harvey Weinstein and Isiah Thomas, but you can only see the betrayal of public trust by the New York media. So, no, we cannot reach common ground. The best we can do is to agree that neither side is above reproach. Where in the world did you see me rationalize a sexually harassing work environment from James Dolan. Please provide link and screen shot. I will put my reputation on the line if you can and it isnt photoshopped. You are now putting words in my mouth, and if we are to remain friends I'm just going to have to stop engaging either you on this topic or take a break from this board. That's what I get for posting at work. Now I'm pissed that my 20 plus year old friend is typing words and sentiments I never posted. When did I bloody ever say I condone James Dolan and his role in the Anucha Browne Saunders fiasco? It's one thing when you and Bill clash over semantics and misquotes but I am even more black and white than most people, a d you have twisted what you FEEL Dolan means to me. Hours ago you said I was like Trump and now I condone a sexually harassing environment. Hey Gates, RX, TRENDSETTA, BILL, IGGY, PEARL, WARWIZARD ANYONE , please help Nic find where I said this BS hes accusing me of and I'll gladly tip my cap and leave. You're mad my opinion of some scumbag beat writers dont align with yours and now your just all over the place with the insults. I am livid. Jason, don't be livid. Maybe he meant me and not you. Cause I don't care about Maggie Gray. I don't care about Oakley. I don't care about Marv. I don't care about the real Isiah Thomas. In the context of Knicks future. I do care about the future. I care about KP. I care about Fizdale. I care about Perry. I care about Knox and Robinson and Trier. And Durant.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jan 4, 2019 0:18:34 GMT -5
Guys we face a very difficult situation here and one that requires restraint and a little objectivity. Maybe a lot of objectivity. I believe Nic already gave us a little heads up that some of our "debates" here are actually a little therapeutic. Which I understand. I can't begin to even fathom what Nic is going through right now except to know one thing. Nic is going through my greatest nightmare. Nic is using us to help him through it because inadvertently we give him a little target he can see and hit and vent on.
That doesn't mean I don't think Nic doesn't believe in what he is saying here because knowing the guy I have no problem believing he is being sincere. I do think Nic needs to remember who he is talking to and to remember the love we all have for him should be reflected in the respect he should be showing us. Disagree all you want but keep it civil and keep it respectful. I think anybody who knows Jason even just a little bit knows he respects women and would protect them in thought, word or deed. So there is no way he thinks ANYBODY should get away with sexual harassment. There should be an apology forthcoming Nic.
As for myself if you want to know my opinion ask me. I don't think I have ever been shy expressing it. But if you are going to discuss/debate/preach to me you better leave mind reading to Ms. Sybil and you better have facts handy. If I don't believe in the media's "inside" sources why would I believe unsubstantiated claims like "lots of discussion groups agree with me". That's like throwing blood in the water amongst Great White Sharks.
One last thing Nic. Gates is absolutely kicking your ass in that other thread. And he hasn't even mentioned Christian Ponder.
So let's all be cool, say a prayer for Nic, his son and his family an go back to playing nice.
Until it's time to not be nice.
My favorite "Road House" quote.
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Post by trendsetta on Jan 5, 2019 11:40:57 GMT -5
The past? The man in an interview last month still denies the verdict. I did read the interview and you and I once again arrive at totally different conclusions. I came away from the interview viewing him worse than I ever did before. sports.yahoo.com/many-hypocrisies-knicks-owner-james-dolans-interview-espn-221622847.htmlThe many hypocrisies of James Dolan is an apt title for that interview. You and Jason and disagree and we are not going to arrive at common ground. Jason dismisses Marv Albert because he is a registered sex offender, but rationalizes away Dolan's defense of a convicted workplace sexual harasser in Isiah Thomas. Dolan insults women like Maggie Gray and by extension his female fanbase with his defense of Harvey Weinstein and Isiah Thomas, but you can only see the betrayal of public trust by the New York media. So, no, we cannot reach common ground. The best we can do is to agree that neither side is above reproach. Where in the world did you see me rationalize a sexually harassing work environment from James Dolan. Please provide link and screen shot. I will put my reputation on the line if you can and it isnt photoshopped. You are now putting words in my mouth, and if we are to remain friends I'm just going to have to stop engaging either you on this topic or take a break from this board. That's what I get for posting at work. Now I'm pissed that my 20 plus year old friend is typing words and sentiments I never posted. When did I bloody ever say I condone James Dolan and his role in the Anucha Browne Saunders fiasco? It's one thing when you and Bill clash over semantics and misquotes but I am even more black and white than most people, a d you have twisted what you FEEL Dolan means to me. Hours ago you said I was like Trump and now I condone a sexually harassing environment. Hey Gates, RX, TRENDSETTA, BILL, IGGY, PEARL, WARWIZARD ANYONE , please help Nic find where I said this BS hes accusing me of and I'll gladly tip my cap and leave. You're mad my opinion of some scumbag beat writers dont align with yours and now your just all over the place with the insults. I am livid. Jason for me the pivot point is whether one acknowledges that the owner of the team is a malignant narcissist. Not everyone understands what a malignant narcissist is. But those that *do* sincerely research what a *malignant* narcissist is-- not merely a *narcissist* but a *malignant narcissist*-- will have to come to the conclusion that it describes the owner of the Knicks perfectly... and also why the Knicks have been such an utter disaster since Dolan took over. It also explains his pattern of behavior and his so-called reasoning process as evinced in interviews. And finally, yes, it explains why Babylon maintains the point of view he has been expressing. Babylon sees Dolan for what he is and I am certain is frustrated that others do not. Heck maybe we should make a poll about whether Dolan is a malignant narcissist. In the meantime I will ask you: after your having spent some time studying/researching what a malignant narcissist is (and I assume in good faith that you have or will have done so before you respond this post of mine), does Dolan fit the descriptions? I have tried to make this point here a good many times since I joined this forum and seemingly to little effect, but this thread really highlights how divisiveness arises from a what I believe is a simple yet profound misunderstanding of who we are dealing with here. And, at the risk of being political, why our beloved country is so divided. The popular vote saw the malignant-narcissist-in-chief for what he is, but the electoral college *trumped* that perception. I will be blunt: I think there is a direct correlation between Dolan and Trump. Others here who voted for Trump may have difficulty dealing with this point-- Trump voters proved to be myopic and don't have the means to properly judge character. It takes guts to admit one is wrong and especially when it comes to misjudging character. And the correlation with Dolan is pretty much the same, ie. you accept Dolan or try to explain away his behavior, applauding his seeming ability to stay out of the way and his willingness to pay. I'm sorry, but that is simply not good enough and never will be, especially when you think of why it's been so tough to attract great players to New York. A leopard does not change his spots.
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jan 5, 2019 12:30:26 GMT -5
Where in the world did you see me rationalize a sexually harassing work environment from James Dolan. Please provide link and screen shot. I will put my reputation on the line if you can and it isnt photoshopped. You are now putting words in my mouth, and if we are to remain friends I'm just going to have to stop engaging either you on this topic or take a break from this board. That's what I get for posting at work. Now I'm pissed that my 20 plus year old friend is typing words and sentiments I never posted. When did I bloody ever say I condone James Dolan and his role in the Anucha Browne Saunders fiasco? It's one thing when you and Bill clash over semantics and misquotes but I am even more black and white than most people, a d you have twisted what you FEEL Dolan means to me. Hours ago you said I was like Trump and now I condone a sexually harassing environment. Hey Gates, RX, TRENDSETTA, BILL, IGGY, PEARL, WARWIZARD ANYONE , please help Nic find where I said this BS hes accusing me of and I'll gladly tip my cap and leave. You're mad my opinion of some scumbag beat writers dont align with yours and now your just all over the place with the insults. I am livid. Jason for me the pivot point is whether one acknowledges that the owner of the team is a malignant narcissist. Not everyone understands what a malignant narcissist is. But those that *do* sincerely research what a *malignant* narcissist is-- not merely a *narcissist* but a *malignant narcissist*-- will have to come to the conclusion that it describes the owner of the Knicks perfectly... and also why the Knicks have been such an utter disaster since Dolan took over. It also explains his pattern of behavior and his so-called reasoning process as evinced in interviews. And finally, yes, it explains why Babylon maintains the point of view he has been expressing. Babylon sees Dolan for what he is and I am certain is frustrated that others do not. Heck maybe we should make a poll about whether Dolan is a malignant narcissist. In the meantime I will ask you: after your having spent some time studying/researching what a malignant narcissist is (and I assume in good faith that you have or will have done so before you respond this post of mine), does Dolan fit the descriptions? I have tried to make this point here a good many times since I joined this forum and seemingly to little effect, but this thread really highlights how divisiveness arises from a what I believe is a simple yet profound misunderstanding of who we are dealing with here. And, at the risk of being political, why our beloved country is so divided. The popular vote saw the malignant-narcissist-in-chief for what he is, but the electoral college *trumped* that perception. I will be blunt: I think there is a direct correlation between Dolan and Trump. Others here who voted for Trump may have difficulty dealing with this point-- Trump voters proved to be myopic and don't have the means to properly judge character. It takes guts to admit one is wrong and especially when it comes to misjudging character. And the correlation with Dolan is pretty much the same, ie. you accept Dolan or try to explain away his behavior, applauding his seeming ability to stay out of the way and his willingness to pay. I'm sorry, but that is simply not good enough and never will be, especially when you think of why it's been so tough to attract great players to New York. A leopard does not change his spots. I dont even begin to understand where Nic and now you get off saying I applaud Dolans behavior. The topic of Dolan gets brought up when we lose, we win, who we draft, who we trade for, who the GM is, who the coach is etc, and this topic like many others gets derailed by talks of Dolan like some deranged deep STATE conversation. I could care less about the owner anymore. You and Nic are stuck in the past for a man who isnt selling the team. Again I asked anyone to find at any point when I condoned a sexually harassing behavior at MSG years ago, and no one including you has been able to find SAID evidence. This obsession with the MSG Chairman is now on Manchurian Candidate levels with some of you.
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Post by trendsetta on Jan 5, 2019 12:45:47 GMT -5
Jason for me the pivot point is whether one acknowledges that the owner of the team is a malignant narcissist. Not everyone understands what a malignant narcissist is. But those that *do* sincerely research what a *malignant* narcissist is-- not merely a *narcissist* but a *malignant narcissist*-- will have to come to the conclusion that it describes the owner of the Knicks perfectly... and also why the Knicks have been such an utter disaster since Dolan took over. It also explains his pattern of behavior and his so-called reasoning process as evinced in interviews. And finally, yes, it explains why Babylon maintains the point of view he has been expressing. Babylon sees Dolan for what he is and I am certain is frustrated that others do not. Heck maybe we should make a poll about whether Dolan is a malignant narcissist. In the meantime I will ask you: after your having spent some time studying/researching what a malignant narcissist is (and I assume in good faith that you have or will have done so before you respond this post of mine), does Dolan fit the descriptions? I have tried to make this point here a good many times since I joined this forum and seemingly to little effect, but this thread really highlights how divisiveness arises from a what I believe is a simple yet profound misunderstanding of who we are dealing with here. And, at the risk of being political, why our beloved country is so divided. The popular vote saw the malignant-narcissist-in-chief for what he is, but the electoral college *trumped* that perception. I will be blunt: I think there is a direct correlation between Dolan and Trump. Others here who voted for Trump may have difficulty dealing with this point-- Trump voters proved to be myopic and don't have the means to properly judge character. It takes guts to admit one is wrong and especially when it comes to misjudging character. And the correlation with Dolan is pretty much the same, ie. you accept Dolan or try to explain away his behavior, applauding his seeming ability to stay out of the way and his willingness to pay. I'm sorry, but that is simply not good enough and never will be, especially when you think of why it's been so tough to attract great players to New York. A leopard does not change his spots. I dont even begin to understand where Nic and now you get off saying I applaud Dolans behavior. The topic of Dolan gets brought up when we lose, we win, who we draft, who we trade for, who the GM is, who the coach is etc, and this topic like many others gets derailed by talks of Dolan like some deranged deep STATE conversation. I could care less about the owner anymore. You and Nic are stuck in the past for a man who isnt selling the team. Again I asked anyone to find at any point when I condoned a sexually harassing behavior at MSG years ago, and no one including you has been able to find SAID evidence. This obsession with the MSG Chairman is now on Manchurian Candidate levels with some of you. Jason in no way manner shape or form have I implied what you are now inferring. I simply ask whether you agree that Dolan is a malignant narcissist. I never accused you of condoning his behavior but rather I ask if you understand what a malignant narcissist is and whether Dolan fits that description. Isn't that worth even a little of your time and contemplation? If and when you do understand that Dolan is a malignant narcissist then you may be less dismissive of the so-called obsession/paranoia of others. Until that time, I accept your point of view. I do hope you'll make the time to research what a malignant narcissist is anyway, because the malignant narcissist eventually finds a way to destroy things, much in the way that brats destroy their toys.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 12:45:55 GMT -5
Where in the world did you see me rationalize a sexually harassing work environment from James Dolan. Please provide link and screen shot. I will put my reputation on the line if you can and it isnt photoshopped. You are now putting words in my mouth, and if we are to remain friends I'm just going to have to stop engaging either you on this topic or take a break from this board. That's what I get for posting at work. Now I'm pissed that my 20 plus year old friend is typing words and sentiments I never posted. When did I bloody ever say I condone James Dolan and his role in the Anucha Browne Saunders fiasco? It's one thing when you and Bill clash over semantics and misquotes but I am even more black and white than most people, a d you have twisted what you FEEL Dolan means to me. Hours ago you said I was like Trump and now I condone a sexually harassing environment. Hey Gates, RX, TRENDSETTA, BILL, IGGY, PEARL, WARWIZARD ANYONE , please help Nic find where I said this BS hes accusing me of and I'll gladly tip my cap and leave. You're mad my opinion of some scumbag beat writers dont align with yours and now your just all over the place with the insults. I am livid. Jason for me the pivot point is whether one acknowledges that the owner of the team is a malignant narcissist. Not everyone understands what a malignant narcissist is. But those that *do* sincerely research what a *malignant* narcissist is-- not merely a *narcissist* but a *malignant narcissist*-- will have to come to the conclusion that it describes the owner of the Knicks perfectly... and also why the Knicks have been such an utter disaster since Dolan took over. It also explains his pattern of behavior and his so-called reasoning process as evinced in interviews. And finally, yes, it explains why Babylon maintains the point of view he has been expressing. Babylon sees Dolan for what he is and I am certain is frustrated that others do not. Heck maybe we should make a poll about whether Dolan is a malignant narcissist. In the meantime I will ask you: after your having spent some time studying/researching what a malignant narcissist is (and I assume in good faith that you have or will have done so before you respond this post of mine), does Dolan fit the descriptions? I have tried to make this point here a good many times since I joined this forum and seemingly to little effect, but this thread really highlights how divisiveness arises from a what I believe is a simple yet profound misunderstanding of who we are dealing with here. And, at the risk of being political, why our beloved country is so divided. The popular vote saw the malignant-narcissist-in-chief for what he is, but the electoral college *trumped* that perception. I will be blunt: I think there is a direct correlation between Dolan and Trump. Others here who voted for Trump may have difficulty dealing with this point-- Trump voters proved to be myopic and don't have the means to properly judge character. It takes guts to admit one is wrong and especially when it comes to misjudging character. And the correlation with Dolan is pretty much the same, ie. you accept Dolan or try to explain away his behavior, applauding his seeming ability to stay out of the way and his willingness to pay. I'm sorry, but that is simply not good enough and never will be, especially when you think of why it's been so tough to attract great players to New York. A leopard does not change his spots. Interesting take but I don't see Dolan that way. He may have a few of the defining characteristics, but he lacks many. Certainly not comparable to the prez. To me he is basically just a pampered rich guy, a bit of a bozo, and a slight jock groupie I don't worry about that much as it is unlikely to change. Sorta like the NY media.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jan 5, 2019 14:54:31 GMT -5
I cannot believe we have cycled back to this old chestnut of an argument so let me ask this one question. A Narcissist, malignant or not, is defined as follows. "The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding."
None of us knows Dolan that well but I guess it could be argued he possesses at least some of these traits.
Now how about Dave's obsession with Malignant Narcissism. It is defined as follows:
"Kernberg described malignant narcissism as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and egosyntonic aggression. Other symptoms may include an absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity)."
It can be further agreed, since it is listed in both definitions that narcissism, either form, is characterized by arrogance, a need for power, acknowledgement of their power and/or perceived greatness by others and even a certain level of paranoia.
So my question is does Dolan even sound like a narcissist, especially a malignant narcissist, when he has handed over control of his basketball team to others and has a well documented hatred of the media and publicity (yet his family owns a newspaper giving him the power to retort to his detractors as he wishes)? Does this sound like another guy we all know who is a Malignant Narcissist and who craves and demands attention 24/7?
My label of Dolan is a little more simplified and a lot easier to quantify. He's a spoiled, entitled, insecure trust baby with Daddy issues. Period. I think the "insecure" label might be the most important because a narcissist, malignant or plain vanilla, isn't going to depend on others as Dolan has depended on the likes of Isaiah and Jackson. Dolan hired these HOF men to validate his ownership of the Knicks. They do the work. He takes the credit and Dolan, in a true blue manifestation of somebody with primal doubts, allowed these two to make all the decisions. This isn't narcissistic behavior. This is entitled, born rich with a platinum spoon in his mouth average guy trying to run in the tall grass with the big dogs behavior.
I did not study Psychiatry in college though I did ace the 2 introductory courses I did take, lived with a Pysch major roommate and I was the one who gave him advice and of course I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. In the rush to label bad behavior and then to somehow assign it specific values why can't we just agree on the following and let the rest drop.
James Dolan is an asshole. That works for me. Y'all?
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Post by trendsetta on Jan 5, 2019 15:11:02 GMT -5
Jason for me the pivot point is whether one acknowledges that the owner of the team is a malignant narcissist. Not everyone understands what a malignant narcissist is. But those that *do* sincerely research what a *malignant* narcissist is-- not merely a *narcissist* but a *malignant narcissist*-- will have to come to the conclusion that it describes the owner of the Knicks perfectly... and also why the Knicks have been such an utter disaster since Dolan took over. It also explains his pattern of behavior and his so-called reasoning process as evinced in interviews. And finally, yes, it explains why Babylon maintains the point of view he has been expressing. Babylon sees Dolan for what he is and I am certain is frustrated that others do not. Heck maybe we should make a poll about whether Dolan is a malignant narcissist. In the meantime I will ask you: after your having spent some time studying/researching what a malignant narcissist is (and I assume in good faith that you have or will have done so before you respond this post of mine), does Dolan fit the descriptions? I have tried to make this point here a good many times since I joined this forum and seemingly to little effect, but this thread really highlights how divisiveness arises from a what I believe is a simple yet profound misunderstanding of who we are dealing with here. And, at the risk of being political, why our beloved country is so divided. The popular vote saw the malignant-narcissist-in-chief for what he is, but the electoral college *trumped* that perception. I will be blunt: I think there is a direct correlation between Dolan and Trump. Others here who voted for Trump may have difficulty dealing with this point-- Trump voters proved to be myopic and don't have the means to properly judge character. It takes guts to admit one is wrong and especially when it comes to misjudging character. And the correlation with Dolan is pretty much the same, ie. you accept Dolan or try to explain away his behavior, applauding his seeming ability to stay out of the way and his willingness to pay. I'm sorry, but that is simply not good enough and never will be, especially when you think of why it's been so tough to attract great players to New York. A leopard does not change his spots. Interesting take but I don't see Dolan that way. He may have a few of the defining characteristics, but he lacks many. Certainly not comparable to the prez. To me he is basically just a pampered rich guy, a bit of a bozo, and a slight jock groupie I don't worry about that much as it is unlikely to change. Sorta like the NY media. "May" Gates? Haha I admire the way you always measure your words. Not sure that approach *always* serves oneself in any discussion or any situation, though. A few "defining" characteristics means they may well be "definitive," Gates. "Where there's smoke there's fire," "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck," etc. etc. Also please consider the history of the people he attracts, befriends, and those he alienates. He donated 300K to Trump, sees nothing wrong with Trump. He was tight with Weinstein, and apparently severed ties not because of Weinstein's sexual assaults but because Weinstein kept asking for Knicks tickets, Isiah Thomas, Marbury, and I will add Melo.
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Post by trendsetta on Jan 5, 2019 15:23:23 GMT -5
I cannot believe we have cycled back to this old chestnut of an argument so let me ask this one question. A Narcissist, malignant or not, is defined as follows. "The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding."
None of us knows Dolan that well but I guess it could be argued he possesses at least some of these traits.
Now how about Dave's obsession with Malignant Narcissism. It is defined as follows:
"Kernberg described malignant narcissism as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and egosyntonic aggression. Other symptoms may include an absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity)."
It can be further agreed, since it is listed in both definitions that narcissism, either form, is characterized by arrogance, a need for power, acknowledgement of their power and/or perceived greatness by others and even a certain level of paranoia.
So my question is does Dolan even sound like a narcissist, especially a malignant narcissist, when he has handed over control of his basketball team to others and has a well documented hatred of the media and publicity (yet his family owns a newspaper giving him the power to retort to his detractors as he wishes)? Does this sound like another guy we all know who is a Malignant Narcissist and who craves and demands attention 24/7?
My label of Dolan is a little more simplified and a lot easier to quantify. He's a spoiled, entitled, insecure trust baby with Daddy issues. Period. I think the "insecure" label might be the most important because a narcissist, malignant or plain vanilla, isn't going to depend on others as Dolan has depended on the likes of Isaiah and Jackson. Dolan hired these HOF men to validate his ownership of the Knicks. They do the work. He takes the credit and Dolan, in a true blue manifestation of somebody with primal doubts, allowed these two to make all the decisions. This isn't narcissistic behavior. This is entitled, born rich with a platinum spoon in his mouth average guy trying to run in the tall grass with the big dogs behavior.
I did not study Psychiatry in college though I did ace the 2 introductory courses I did take, lived with a Pysch major roommate and I was the one who gave him advice and of course I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. In the rush to label bad behavior and then to somehow assign it specific values why can't we just agree on the following and let the rest drop.
James Dolan is an asshole. That works for me. Y'all? Why did you leave out his actions with Donnie Walsh, the one GM he was forced into hiring by David Stern?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 16:02:35 GMT -5
I cannot believe we have cycled back to this old chestnut of an argument so let me ask this one question. A Narcissist, malignant or not, is defined as follows. "The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding."
None of us knows Dolan that well but I guess it could be argued he possesses at least some of these traits.
Now how about Dave's obsession with Malignant Narcissism. It is defined as follows:
"Kernberg described malignant narcissism as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and egosyntonic aggression. Other symptoms may include an absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity)."
It can be further agreed, since it is listed in both definitions that narcissism, either form, is characterized by arrogance, a need for power, acknowledgement of their power and/or perceived greatness by others and even a certain level of paranoia.
So my question is does Dolan even sound like a narcissist, especially a malignant narcissist, when he has handed over control of his basketball team to others and has a well documented hatred of the media and publicity (yet his family owns a newspaper giving him the power to retort to his detractors as he wishes)? Does this sound like another guy we all know who is a Malignant Narcissist and who craves and demands attention 24/7?
My label of Dolan is a little more simplified and a lot easier to quantify. He's a spoiled, entitled, insecure trust baby with Daddy issues. Period. I think the "insecure" label might be the most important because a narcissist, malignant or plain vanilla, isn't going to depend on others as Dolan has depended on the likes of Isaiah and Jackson. Dolan hired these HOF men to validate his ownership of the Knicks. They do the work. He takes the credit and Dolan, in a true blue manifestation of somebody with primal doubts, allowed these two to make all the decisions. This isn't narcissistic behavior. This is entitled, born rich with a platinum spoon in his mouth average guy trying to run in the tall grass with the big dogs behavior.
I did not study Psychiatry in college though I did ace the 2 introductory courses I did take, lived with a Pysch major roommate and I was the one who gave him advice and of course I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. In the rush to label bad behavior and then to somehow assign it specific values why can't we just agree on the following and let the rest drop.
James Dolan is an asshole. That works for me. Y'all? Pretty much what I wrote but as usual, you did it better.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 16:13:00 GMT -5
Interesting take but I don't see Dolan that way. He may have a few of the defining characteristics, but he lacks many. Certainly not comparable to the prez. To me he is basically just a pampered rich guy, a bit of a bozo, and a slight jock groupie I don't worry about that much as it is unlikely to change. Sorta like the NY media. "May" Gates? Haha I admire the way you always measure your words. Not sure that approach *always* serves oneself in any discussion or any situation, though. A few "defining" characteristics means they may well be "definitive," Gates. "Where there's smoke there's fire," "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck," etc. etc. Also please consider the history of the people he attracts, befriends, and those he alienates. He donated 300K to Trump, sees nothing wrong with Trump. He was tight with Weinstein, and apparently severed ties not because of Weinstein's sexual assaults but because Weinstein kept asking for Knicks tickets, Isiah Thomas, Marbury, and I will add Melo. I don't consider myself astute enough to evaluate personalities with total confidence. I am always fascinated when laymen do have that confidence in their opinion. Reminds me of Skip Bayless lecturing Eric Mangini on NFL offense . The form of narcissism being discussed is outside my bailiwick. I see some traits but see other incredibly lacking, like shyness or self assuredness. As an aside I do like Marbury and Melo. I like both personally more than I like Jordan.
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Post by trendsetta on Jan 5, 2019 16:51:33 GMT -5
"May" Gates? Haha I admire the way you always measure your words. Not sure that approach *always* serves oneself in any discussion or any situation, though. A few "defining" characteristics means they may well be "definitive," Gates. "Where there's smoke there's fire," "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck," etc. etc. Also please consider the history of the people he attracts, befriends, and those he alienates. He donated 300K to Trump, sees nothing wrong with Trump. He was tight with Weinstein, and apparently severed ties not because of Weinstein's sexual assaults but because Weinstein kept asking for Knicks tickets, Isiah Thomas, Marbury, and I will add Melo. I don't consider myself astute enough to evaluate personalities with total confidence. I am always fascinated when laymen do have that confidence in their opinion. Reminds me of Skip Bayless lecturing Eric Mangini on NFL offense . The form of narcissism being discussed is outside my bailiwick. I see some traits but see other incredibly lacking, like shyness or self assuredness. As an aside I do like Marbury and Melo. I like both personally more than I like Jordan. I think this has already been mentioned but there has been one constant with the disastrous last 19 years and that is Dolan. That's twenty years of not merely futility and incompetence but of the kind that has an element of self-destructiveness. So though you may not agree with this element the track record alone speaks volumes. But I will add, once more, that it isn't the losing in and of itself but the *way* the Knicks have been losing-- the farcical, laughingstock aspect of it all. You are fortunate, in a way, that this subject is outside your "bailiwick." I am not as fortunate as you, but ironically better-qualified to weigh in on this subject. Plenty of time for Dolan to jump in at the worst possible moment and destroy things once again. You may not expect it but I do, and I have explained ad nauseam why.
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Post by axios on Jan 5, 2019 19:08:09 GMT -5
Why the need to bring politics into this forum? 8years of another narcissistic zero before this one. Part of the job description i guess.
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