|
|
Post by kgooglog on Aug 4, 2009 15:53:21 GMT -5
Since I have have had enough of Ramon Sessions, "Chubby" Wells, Jamaal Tinsley, and even J-Dubs to last me the rest of this week, I wanted to check out Tyrus Thomas's numbers.
10.2 PPG
6.5 RPG
0.9 ASSISTS
1.1 STEALS
1.9 BLOCKS
44% FG
77% FT
Tyrus Thomas averaged 26.5 minutes per game. What immediately stood out for me were the steals and blocks. In basically two quarters of playing time, Ty is averaging 2 blocks, 7 boards, and a steal.
I am not good at projecting stats over the minutes a starting PF in the NBA gets, but I can easily see the 23 year old Thomas averaging close to 20 PPG, 10 RPG, 4 Blocked shots a game, and 2 steals.
One other brief point. Ty has dramatically improved his FT% from his rookie year. Although David Lee's stats blow Thomas's away at first glance, let us consider that Lee started nearly every game this year and while his double-doubles are impressive, they are also a bit deceptive. Lee has no outside shot to speak of, is not a shot-blocker nor does he possess the athleticism of his Chicago counterpart.
If Chicago is clamoring for a sign and trade involving Thomas for Lee, I can see our PF position as being one of the strongest ones out there in the NBA. Thomas has everything the Knicks need, especially in light of our pivot position being somewhat of an unknown and certainly a defensive liability.
This is a player Walsh must acquire and Chicago seems to be a willing partner.
|
|
|
|
Post by irish2u2 on Aug 4, 2009 17:40:17 GMT -5
Ken
I like Tyrus Thomas but keep in mind there is a reason a lot of Bulls recent trade talk starts with Thomas as the key component.
He's a wildly athletic player. He is also the player who kept on shooting when he went 0-17 during a game early last season. Thomas is the type of kid whose athleticism gets him out of trouble but he doesn't learn from mistakes as well as you would want him to especially in his 3rd year in the league. I think he plays with passion and heart and he has skills but he doesn't seem to be evolving the way you would like to see. Lee is the perfect example of the learning curve you want in young players. He constantly works on his game and when given the opportunity he makes the best of it.
Tyrus Thomas works for me as a compromise if we can't find a way to keep Lee. I'd rather have Lee whose game may not be as athletically spectacular but he does more things and he adds more BBall IQ to the equation. It's the same reason I like Duhon because you know he understands the game and his limitations and he works inside those limitations.
|
|
|
|
Post by ReneNYG1 on Aug 4, 2009 18:22:55 GMT -5
Bill I agree with you I'd rather have Lee and his Higher IQ but unfortunately his agent Chubby has a low IQ,Thomas might fir better in our system it's a gamble but at this point we risk losing DLee trade value.Hill is going to the five so DLee has to play the four and he won't be getting double doubles with Hill and Darko getting their share DLee value is at a peek right now so it's sign cheap long term or shutup and sign a one year ticket out of here with your dumb ass Chubby with you.Thomas might end up playing better thereby earning more trade value down the road if we want to package but he might catch on the system is easy and somewhat instinctive so if catching on we migh catch lighting in a bottle with his hops ,Thomas is looking good to me now and Chubby is looking bad LOL.
|
|
|
|
Post by ReneNYG1 on Aug 4, 2009 18:35:50 GMT -5
I'm going to Las Vegas tom for a week I'll get the Knick odds for the year.LOL
I got my pre so you guys keep typing away,this is getting frustating but I like DW because he's so far mad great deals,Darko is F__ great deal,this guy was a very high pick,center,I love the salary dumping with Jamal and Randolph ,the fans that are getting on DW are morons.The guy is aewsome so far,I'm starting to like teh Gallo pick this is key in definding DW career with the Knicks,id Gallo is a star ,DW will be GOD.I'm glad he didn't give in to Sessions,I love Clyde but he's no scout.I've been scouting football for years and look at Jordan he was the greatest but can't draft for his life and has Larry Brown Now.LOLI like DW patience we have Duhon so guys relax he played great last year,make Gallo the point.LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by mercury on Aug 4, 2009 22:16:37 GMT -5
Concerning Lee, the two things that keep him from being a max player are his jumpshot and defense. I believe that Dave will eventually become a good jump shooter, not like Alan Houston but like Kurt Thomas. The area dave is weakest in is defense. How about having Charles Oakley come over and show Lee some moves. Lee is alot lore atheltic than Oakley ever was, and even has the same fight and desire as Oakley. Lee is a much better player than Ty Thomas. However, there are other players in this league who are much better than Lee, and if Walsh can acquire one using Lee in a trade go for it!
|
|
|
|
Post by kgooglog on Aug 5, 2009 20:11:40 GMT -5
I agree with Rene, Bill. Lee's astronomical numbers came from the pivot position which, while it had its disadvantages, it certainly had its advantages. I think David Lee makes for an excellent 4th or 5th option on offense, and if his defense was spotty guarding immobile pivots, he will be doomed in trying to defend the 4 position. No longer will he be able to leave his man alone and collect rebounds. No longer will he be able to choose to station himself outside of the paint area or mix it up in the middle. No longer can his jump shot be as bad as it is, since he lacks the quickness and footspeed to match nearly every PF I can think of. I think that keeping Lee over Ty Thomas, if this rumor has any substance to it, would be a huge mistake.
Thomas is only 23 years old, and received 26 minutes a game. I've watched numerous Bulls games, and yes, Ty has some lousy habits such as drifting into cartoon land or being too aggressive on the offensive end. But this guy has not even tapped into his potential and, IMHO, I think David had a statistically bombshell of a season, but the numbers lie in many cases. Most importantly, Ty is a young player who has had questionable coaching, IMHO, if you look at Del Negro as a "mentor".
NY was one of the worst rebounding teams in the NBA, their SG was the leading shot-blocker, and David, and I like the guy, averaged his "double-doubles" on a 33 win team. I think, as Rene said, we should sign and trade him now, while his value is at its highest. He is a great guy to have as an on the court leader, plays his ass off every night, but he is limited in some of the most crucial areas that a power player can be limited in. In addition to not having a mid-range shot, which Ty does have, Lee has no post game whatsoever. I do not see him in the positive way that I lulled myself into believing.
I am much more fearful now that Lee has been pulled by Bartlestein into believing that he is a Boozer-like player in terms of salary. If Lee were our 7th man, I would say he is a superb role player, but that's where it ends with me, in terms of how I see the 2010-11 Knicks and beyond...
Imagine LeBron one on one versus Dave. This is what I am talking about. I cannot even imagine Dave one on one versus Anderson Varejao, who literally bitchslapped Lee in that late season Cavs/Knicks game. I even think Chris Wilcox outshined Dave in several appearances last year, and Wilcox backed up Dave.
Now, if I am looking at the Knicks with Ricky Rubio, Wilson Chandler, LeBron James, and even Al Harrington, this is a team which fits and is better composed than a line-up which is offensively and defensively compromised with David Lee in it...
Maybe I am just sick and tired of Bartlestein...I know David Lee is a good player. But I just don't think he has that next level in him, particularly on the Knicks.
|
|
|
|
Post by mercury on Aug 5, 2009 20:52:03 GMT -5
Kgoog you have many good points. This leads to how Walsh has been handeling negotiations with Lee, and Nate. Both Players will be forced into quallifying offers or sign one year contracts with the Knicks, and if they do sign one year deals with the Knicks, Walsh is being very nice. Most teams would say quallifying offer or nothing. Once Lee and Nate are locked in for the year the Knicks will benefit. Both will be playing their hearts out trying to capture financial wealth and reputation. Around the trade deadline when teams are desperate and looking to make a bigmove the Knicks can auction Lee and Nate for maximum value. All problems solved.
|
|
|
|
Post by kgooglog on Aug 6, 2009 0:14:35 GMT -5
Kgoog you have many good points. This leads to how Walsh has been handeling negotiations with Lee, and Nate. Both Players will be forced into quallifying offers or sign one year contracts with the Knicks, and if they do sign one year deals with the Knicks, Walsh is being very nice. Most teams would say quallifying offer or nothing. Once Lee and Nate are locked in for the year the Knicks will benefit. Both will be playing their hearts out trying to capture financial wealth and reputation. Around the trade deadline when teams are desperate and looking to make a bigmove the Knicks can auction Lee and Nate for maximum value. All problems solved. Thank you for the kind words, Merc. I think Donnie Walsh has taken chances with both of our RFA's, mainly David Lee, for I did think there was a time where Portland was going to grab David with a crazy offer sheet which may have been too much in Walsh's mind. With the insight into Walsh resigning David or Nate to one year pacts, means that NY gets the best of both worlds. I agree that our GM could have easily said "My way or the highway", especially to Lee, whose comments to ESPN and to the various media outlets, can easily be construed as greed and ungratefulness. I do not believe Dave is either of these, but I think he is extremely frustrated over the economic situation in the NBA, as well as his agent promising him the world and delivering nothing. I do not think NY was even offering Lee anywhere near $8,000,000 a year, which, IMHO, is about $3,000,000 over what Dave's market value is. I think NY has a very clear number in mind and it may be in the MLE region for Lee and no where near that region for Robinson. Nevertheless, I do think Lee signs a one year deal for 50% less than his agent promised him, and unless Dave wants to play in Europe, he has no choice but to resign and exhibit a marked improvement in his game so that he will have a leg to stand on in the big FA summer. I have read that Nate Robinson may actually be renounced if/when the Knicks sign Ramon Sessions as well as one of these veterans. NY is not locked into anything with either player and Nate is not one of D'Antoni's favorites to begin with, and Walsh is simply looking at positions. dollars and redundancy. While I wouldn't be shocked if Robinson were allowed to sign with another team, I also wouldn't be surprised if he were involved in a sign and trade, along with Curry or Jeffries, just to get rid of owed monies. Just a little over an hour ago, RealGM had a twitter from Alan Hahn of Newsday which mentioned that NY plans to get rid of a non-rookie contract which ran into 2010 before any new players are added to the roster. Jared Jeffries and Eddy Curry were the names were mentioned as possible salary dumps... |
|
|
|
Post by irish2u2 on Aug 6, 2009 9:03:46 GMT -5
I would not be surprised to see the Knicks try and make another move on Carlos Boozer. The market for him has cooled considerably and the Jazz have to deal the guy.
The art of the deal. ; )
|
|
|
|
Post by axios on Aug 6, 2009 10:44:29 GMT -5
i love boozer, although hes always hurt and anyone from slc thinks he's a bum.
what's our starting lineup with him?
|
|
|
|
Post by kgooglog on Aug 7, 2009 0:58:03 GMT -5
I would not be surprised to see the Knicks try and make another move on Carlos Boozer. The market for him has cooled considerably and the Jazz have to deal the guy. The art of the deal. ; ) And the beautiful part of a Boozer trade concerns the fact that NY is one of his preferred destinations. I can see Cuttino Mobley's contract being a huge part of this deal as well as a resigned David Lee. Utah may have to ante up a draft pick as well, since they will be getting back a whole lot of cash with a $9.5 million dollar contract that is 80% insured and David Lee, who, if signed for the Knicks qualifying offer of $2.7 million, makes this trade work. Of course, Eddy Curry makes an even up deal for Boozer work, too. Or Jared Jeffries plus a resigned David Lee? I can envision a lineup of; Boozer/Hill-PF Gallo/Harrington-SF Darko or Curry-Center Chandler/Von Wafer-SG Sessions/Duhon/Douglas-PG I see Nate renounced in this line-up and this line-up considers that Lee is the trading chip along with Mobley's contract, which lands us Carlos. Who knows where the position-less Jeffries is this season, if Walsh doesn't trade him. Actually, if Lee is resigned for $6,000,000 for one year, he and Jared make the trade for Boozer work as well. |
|
|
|
Post by irish2u2 on Aug 7, 2009 9:18:31 GMT -5
I think Lee is worth more than the MLE. I think 8 million is fair market value for David Lee's ability and effort and I still believe we have not seen the best of David Lee yet. I would take Lee in a heartbeat over Varajao or Wilcox.
BTW, I don't see Eddy Curry ever going to the Jazz. He is the Anti-Christ to an Old School coach like Jerry Sloan. ; )
|
|
|
|
Post by greatgates on Aug 7, 2009 14:16:19 GMT -5
I think Lee is worth more than the MLE. I think 8 million is fair market value for David Lee's ability and effort and I still believe we have not seen the best of David Lee yet. I would take Lee in a heartbeat over Varajao or Wilcox. BTW, I don't see Eddy Curry ever going to the Jazz. He is the Anti-Christ to an Old School coach like Jerry Sloan. ; ) |
|
|
|
Post by ReneNYG1 on Aug 15, 2009 4:06:50 GMT -5
Merc I don't want DLee to play this year if I sign him I trade him riight away before the season because he will drop in value this year with more help in the middle.I love the guy he's a great guy but his agent is nuts and we need the cap room for 2 max players in 2010.He can't play defense really and that hurts alot.He can't shot from outside other than that he's great.But not 9 million great.7.5 maxper
|
|
|
|
Post by kgooglog on Aug 15, 2009 9:36:06 GMT -5
Merc...
I love your new avatar of "Slim". From your camera to Eddy's waist-line. Actually, I read that Curry has lost a total of 40 pounds!
That is pretty damned impressive even if "Slim" now weighs 318. Imagine how much quicker Curry will be without this excess weight, and Eddy is naturally quick in making his offensive moves.
My hope is that his defense and rebounding become a priority. Curry should be better able to elevate and move his now svelte figure in position for boards.
David Lee. What is going to happen with our man?
|
|
