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Post by irish2u2 on Apr 11, 2009 11:08:59 GMT -5
I must say I was astounded that we beat Orlando last night. On paper it's a huge mismatch especially since they have the best center in the NBA and we have a PF masquerading as a center. First let me say the Van Gundy brothers are asses. Stan is literally and figuratively the bigger ass of the two but Jeff isn't far behind. I'm related to Jon Barry and I wasn't having a happy family moment last night listening to him continually rip the Knicks. ESPN can do better. As for the game itself we saw Harrington and Nate do what they do best. Get hot enough to propel us to a lead and then disappear. To Harrington's credit he showed up againin the second half but Wilson Chandler was the difference-maker in this game. I can buy the proposition that Lee and Nate are role players but when JVG called Chandler a "role" player I wondered how many Knick games he has seen and if he still holds a grudge against the Knicks/Dolan. Chandler may not be a star now but he could be if he continues to grow. Every part of his game is better than last year and I'd bet his game improves next year too. Yea Jeff, double doubles are indeed a good thing.  Lee would get more notice for his work if the Knicks won more games but he does his best. He works hard and mostly stays within himself during games. BTW, what has gotten into Jared Jefferies? This is the guy we all hoped for when Isiah signed him though he is still not worthy of a full MLE. He's been playing well at both ends of the court over the last 15 games or so showing real game offensively and being extremely active which shows up in tips and deflections which never make the boxscore. |
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Post by daglazer on Apr 11, 2009 11:35:13 GMT -5
I must say I was astounded that we beat Orlando last night. On paper it's a huge mismatch especially since they have the best center in the NBA and we have a PF masquerading as a center. First let me say the Van Gundy brothers are asses. Stan is literally and figuratively the bigger ass of the two but Jeff isn't far behind. I'm related to Jon Barry and I wasn't having a happy family moment last night listening to him continually rip the Knicks. TNT can do better. As for the game itself we saw Harrington and Nate do what they do best. Get hot enough to propel us to a lead and then disappear. To Harrington's credit he showed up againin the second half but Wilson Chandler was the difference-maker in this game. I can buy the proposition that Lee and Nate are role players but when JVG called Chandler a "role" player I wondered how many Knick games he has seen and if he still holds a grudge against the Knicks/Dolan. Chandler may not be a star now but he could be if he continues to grow. Every part of his game is better than last year and I'd bet his game improves next year too. Yea Jeff, double doubles are indeed a good thing. Lee would get more notice for his work if the Knicks won more games but he does his best. He works hard and mostly stays within himself during games. BTW, what has gotten into Jared Jefferies? This is the guy we all hoped for when Isiah signed him though he is still not worthy of a full MLE. He's been playing well at both ends of the court over the last 15 games or so showing real game offensively and being extremely active which shows up in tips and deflections which never make the boxscore. Bill, Chandler is the very definition of a role player. He is not a star and is not counted upon to carry the team. However, he scores, plays defense and acts as a glue guy. That is the very definition of a role player. I think that you were a bit too sensitive to JVG. More importantly, the win showed what a difference playing hard can mean. The Magic were trying to coast through the first 3 quarters and instead lost because they let an inferior team play with confidence. |
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Post by will1682 on Apr 11, 2009 12:27:17 GMT -5
As glazer mentioned above, the level Wilson is at currently is indeed the definition of a role player. But I do believe the potential is there for him to be MUCH more and we clearly see flashes of it from time to time. I always try to keep in mind that he is just a second year player and keep my hopes up that he continues to blossom. He played very sparingly under Zeke and didnt see decent minutes until we were "mathmatically" eliminated from playoff contention. But I can say this, the second I heard Mike Dantoni was our new coach I knew Wilson would be in his starting lineup.
I dont know who it was, but I think they said it best that Jared Jeffries is an enigma. We all knew he wouldnt be a superstar for us but he seemed to be hailed as a hard worker that would give you his 8-8 average every game, one of those role players you hope for. Now of course not in any way worth a full mid-level salary, in that sense he is just Clarence Weatherspoon all over again. But its clear he is not consistent. Maybe he just hasnt been used properly as an experiment at the 5. I think in Washington he was more of a 3-4 position.
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Post by irish2u2 on Apr 11, 2009 13:15:06 GMT -5
Chandler Wilson may be a role player now but given the fact he was a late first round pick and he didn't play a lot his first year his play this year has been astounding and there are very definite signs what we see now is just the tip of the iceberg. That is my point. Lee can get better but his ceiling as a player is nearly achieved. Robinson is always going to be 5'8.
We have 2 players on the Knicks with unlimited upside. One is Chandler. The other is Gallinari. Right now Chandler is still learning how to play the game but his improvement in all areas of the game is past noticeable. He will get better too because he is a hard working, humble young man and extremely coachable. With his size, athleticism and strength and improved shot selection and some work on his ballhandling this kid is going to be better than a "role" player at SG. He's got the game to be a consistent 15-20 point scorer in the league who is good for 5+ rebounds a game from the SG position plus can play defense. His star ceiling is limited because he is not overly creative with the ball but he can be past effective and he seems to like the 4th quarter.
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Post by jbaer10314 on Apr 11, 2009 13:46:43 GMT -5
<< First let me say the Van Gundy brothers are asses. Stan is literally and figuratively the bigger ass of the two but Jeff isn't far behind. I'm related to Jon Barry and I wasn't having a happy family moment last night listening to him continually rip the Knicks. >>
Now now, Bill--ESPN has other and better analysts, like Hubie Brown (the best in the business, IMHO), Mark Jackson, and Doris Burke. <slurp> ; D
As for JVG, he slammed the Knicks since he joined ESPN, probably still fuming about how no one in the front office would listen to him before he resigned as coach. He spews most of his anti-Knick rhetoric during other teams' games, which is mind-boggling in itself. He's nothing more than a crybaby and should be viewed by us as such.
<< TNT can do better. >>
Unless the Knicks get blown out by 45 points...
<< Chandler may not be a star now but he could be if he continues to grow. Every part of his game is better than last year and I'd bet his game improves next year too. >>
Spoken like a true Kool-Aid drinker.
This is why it makes zero sense to predict a draft pick's career path, especially early in his career. New players have to LEARN the NBA game before they can distinguish themselves on any level. This is only Chandler's second season, which gives him plenty of time to become a star--and maybe a much-needed leader, too
<< BTW, what has gotten into Jared Jefferies? This is the guy we all hoped for when Isiah signed him though he is still not worthy of a full MLE. He's been playing well at both ends of the court over the last 15 games or so showing real game offensively and being extremely active which shows up in tips and deflections which never make the boxscore. >>
See? There's hope for almost everyone.
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Post by greatgates on Apr 11, 2009 13:55:22 GMT -5
I love JVG. I like him alot more as analyst than as coach. Unfortunately i think he is generally correct as analyst when he speaks of our squad. i do think lee is a system stats player and his numbers have been greatly enhanced by D'antoni's system. To be honest, is lee that much better than troy murphy. that is a pretty average NBA power forward, stats or not.
My point is this: how many players do we have that are in the top 10 at their position, top 15, top 20??? We have a bunch of 4th 5th or 6th men. i don't think we have ONE player that is in the top 10 at his position. In addition only Chandler and Gallo have that potential and I am unsure if they reach that status.
BTW I love Lee ( my favorite knick) and like harrington but talentwise these offensive numbers are about Mike's system [/size]
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Post by jbaer10314 on Apr 11, 2009 13:58:25 GMT -5
<< Chandler is the very definition of a role player. He is not a star and is not counted upon to carry the team. However, he scores, plays defense and acts as a glue guy. That is the very definition of a role player. >>
With all due resoect, DA, what did I say about predicting a player's career path...?
But let's assume for a moment you're right. Ecery team still needs role players at Chandler's level/ And considering Zeke brought in most of these players, we have nothing BUT role players at best. But this team still has to win games, and two or three players have to emerge for that to happen (until 2010, at least). So if Chandler turns out to be one of those emerging players--especially if he improves next season like he did this year--we should let him be one.
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Post by irish2u2 on Apr 11, 2009 14:03:58 GMT -5
Gates makes a great point that nobody on our team would be considered Top 10 at their position in the NBA. Jeff makes another great point that role players are vital (one of my favorite rants).
We are on target to land at least one bonafide star player. We have excellent "role" players and maybe a little more than that with Chandler and Gallinari. It's a marathon and not a sprint and so far I think we are doing OK. Not great but OK.
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Post by irish2u2 on Apr 11, 2009 14:07:21 GMT -5
Jeff Van Gundy has always been whiny. Brother Stan takes it to a whole new level. I'm not particularly impressed with JVG's analysis as it seems to me he just throwing out regurgitated sound bytes we have heard before. My measure of an analyst is do I learn something I didn't know before and with JVG the answer is a resounding "No". That's why I like X and O guys like Hubie Brown. He dissects the game. Jeff Van Gundy picks at it.
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Post by kman414 on Apr 11, 2009 16:24:54 GMT -5
It was nice to see a win even though it could cost us a draft position. As far as jeff Van Gundy is concerned, he's a whiny quitter who lucked into the Knick's coaching job. I hate him just slightly less than I hated Isiah. But the more important question is....what was Mother Van Gundy up to all those years ago. She gives birth to two sons....one is a short, bald little dirtbag and the other is a fat, hairy, obnoxious dirtbag. Did the Fuller Brushman get lucky or what?
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Post by irish2u2 on Apr 11, 2009 16:36:03 GMT -5
It was nice to see a win even though it could cost us a draft position. As far as jeff Van Gundy is concerned, he's a whiny quitter who lucked into the Knick's coaching job. I hate him just slightly less than I hated Isiah. But the more important question is....what was Mother Van Gundy up to all those years ago. She gives birth to two sons....one is a short, bald little dirtbag and the other is a fat, hairy, obnoxious dirtbag. Did the Fuller Brushman get lucky or what? Taking a good look at the Van Gundy brothers I doubt seriously their mother entertained other male visitors. ; ) |
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Post by kgooglog on Apr 12, 2009 10:13:23 GMT -5
My belief on Wilson Chandler's career trajectory is that he will be far more than a role player on an NBA team. At 21 years of age, this kid has an NBA shooting touch from 20 feet and in, rebounds extremely well for a SG (where I see him at full-time next season), is the Knicks best defensive player, takes the big shot in crunch time, and is an unbelievable athletic player with an NBA body. The Knicks have a special player in WC, but I cannot say Wilson's potential is unlimited, simply because the Knicks will acquire an "elite" player or two in 2010. This is why I mention that Chandler may very well evolve into that star on another team.
I've mellowed on my seething hatred towards Jeff Van Gundy over the years, and find that he just belches out words on telecasts. I was tempted to watch the game on ESPN, but stuck with Breen and Clyde, so I can only imagine how much of an irritant he was...
Stan Van Gundy was called out by Breen and Clyde as being "bizarre" in the comments he made against the Knicks organization regarding "using Patrick Ewing to sell tickets." Donnie Walsh was the man who organized the Knicks Legends Night, and wasn't here during the Ewing era, so Stan must have confused Donnie with Zeke.
Stan Van Gundy must be the luckiest coach in recent NBA history. He inherits elite players and rides their coattails and than is actually considered to be a candidate for Coach of the Year. Please. He and Eddy Curry should be considered as the two NBA staff who have gained the most weight in one season.
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Post by pearl on Apr 12, 2009 11:01:10 GMT -5
I was thrilled with the Knicks victory against the Magic this weekend. They shut up the assanine television crew, which gave me the most satisfaction. This Barry is a cocky SOB, like his father, Rick.
Anyhow, the ball movement was excellent and the Knicks need a way to consistently move the ball as they did Friday evening. Lee is having an amazing season going up against 5's and today I read in the NY Daily News the Knicks plan on getting a point guard next season and moving Duhon to the bench. Not a bad idea, depending upon the player coming here. Duhon, while he played well, definitely got tired and I would prefer a taller and stronger point guard. Duhon played very well this season, however, he gets overpowered too often.
I am thrilled to be on this board with my hoop buddies.
Pearl
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Apr 12, 2009 11:31:20 GMT -5
Ironically for some reason Jeff Van Gundy was listed by that show fans most wanted on msg as the third best coach in Knicks history by fans behind Holtzman and Riley second despite what we all feel.
Then again who knows how many fans actually voted on that show through msg.com
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Post by jbaer10314 on Apr 12, 2009 12:05:03 GMT -5
<< Ironically for some reason Jeff Van Gundy was listed by that show fans most wanted on msg as the third best coach in Knicks history by fans behind Holtzman and Riley second despite what we all feel.
Then again who knows how many fans actually voted on that show through msg.com >>
I thought JVG was a terrific coach. When it comes to calling games, however...
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Lee would get more notice for his work if the Knicks won more games but he does his best. He works hard and mostly stays within himself during games.
