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Post by will1682 on Jun 7, 2009 11:45:46 GMT -5
Just read on RealGM, according to a tibit in the Boston Globe an NBA executive claims that Donnie Walsh is attempting to work out a sign and trade deal for David Lee to save on cap space.
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Post by mercury on Jun 7, 2009 14:33:18 GMT -5
I think Memphis might be where we trade Lee. However, this is only if Lee will agree to the deal. Im thinking Darko and the number two pick for Lee. They dont use Darko much so he is just to match salary. So the trade is Lee for Rubio. However, the Grizz might want more, so the deal could be Darko the number two and 27 pick for Lee and the eigth pick. Either combination would be a good deal for the Knicks.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 7, 2009 14:33:37 GMT -5
Will
I doubt anyone here is surprised. I'm a huge David Lee fan (for obvious reasons ; ) but even I would never pay 10 million a season for a player so defensively challenged. On the right team Lee would be a gem but on the Knicks the lack of a defensive center makes David expendable. I knew this in my heart when the Knicks made no effort to sign Lee to a longterm contract last summer.
I can handle trading my favorite Knick if we get the right trade. I think he is worth a top 5 pick. In fact I think Walsh should be burning up the phone lines with Memphis to get their #2 pick and Darko Milicic (his contract expires the summer of 2010) in exchange for Lee. We keep our #8 pick. The possibilities (Rubio or Thabeet with #2 and Curry/Flynn/DeRozan/Evans with the #8) would go a long ways towards building a core of young players on the Knicks making us more attractive to 2010 free agents.
The next 18 days or so should be very interesting. ; )
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Post by mercury on Jun 7, 2009 18:11:52 GMT -5
It will be great if the Knicks could trade Lee for the number 2 pick in the draft. Even better if we can keep the 8 pick. Next season the Knicks will have a few roster spots to fill, so they should try to buy a lare 1st round pick. These picks will be useful if the Knicks wind up with no pick next year.
Since there is still time till the draft, iam going to pose a question. If the Knicks could get the 2 pick who is the better option Thabet or Rubio. At first I think Rubio but Thabet can block alot of shots, and would bring alot closer to reaching the playoffs. This draft is deep at the pont, so Thabet might be a good risk if the Knicks can pick up a quality point with the 8 pick. However, if rubio has true superstar pontential you have to pick him.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 7, 2009 20:01:37 GMT -5
Merc
Note we both posted our replies at almost the exact same time proposing the exact same scenario.
Great minds? ; )
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Jun 19, 2009 22:00:35 GMT -5
Picking the #2 pick could be like when Portland took Bowie over Jordan,if we get the number two and draft Thabeet and he hurts his ankle and Rubio becomes the next assist king we would be very upset,I'm loving defense so I have mixed feelings,I don't think Thabeet is going to be a bust,he's a defensive stopper we need at center that'a for sure but if we can get the assist leader of the the future sure that's hard to pass up,we need mutiple picks because i'M STARTING TO LIKE ALOT OF GUYS IN THIS DRAFT.I really like Terrence Williams,Curry.Johnson,Rubio,Ellington,Flyn,Lawson and you could get some nice defensive players like Williams.
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Post by daglazer on Jun 20, 2009 10:27:49 GMT -5
In the debate about Rubio versus Thabeet, let me use an analogy. For the 1991 draft, the Nets had Derrick Coleman and a young PG in Mookie Blaylock. They did not have a quality center. Rather than pick Mutombo to give them their needed defensive presence, they took Kenny Anderson, the flashy point guard. If the Nets could do that draft over, I am sure that they would choose Deke.
Thabeet is very raw on offense, but he can run and already has great instincts on defense. Rubio is a flashy point. I personally believe that teams are better off with a steady pass first point as opposed to the flashy points. The last team to win with a flashy point was the Pistons with Isiah.
Give me the shotblocking Center who can anchor the middle of my defense for 10+ years.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 20, 2009 12:14:21 GMT -5
DA
You and Ken must be in cahoots. Ken has made similar arguments and they are valid. The thing is we need the Memphis pick to get Thabeet. This poses an interesting dilemma. Do you play it safe and take a guy who will likely never make an All-Star game but will provide the Knicks with a needed dimension for the next decade or do you roll the dice on a difference maker. A Pippen.
While your analogy, at the time, was right on with Kenny Anderson and Dikembe Mutumbo it's not the same today with Rubio and Thabeet. On one side Thabeet looks like Mt. Mutumbo II. That's accurate. Rubio and Anderson? Not even close. Rubio may be flashy but he is also a pass first PG and Anderson was not. Rubio is taller and his upside is off the charts. KA was a good player but he was what he was and like Marbury he never evolved into a team leader. Rubio has that ability to lead a team. It's a rare commodity. With the #2 pick in the draft I roll the dice on the potential star player. An important consideration too is attitude and Rubio is amazingly mature for his tender years. He knows he has star ability but he willingly takes a back seat to his teammates and concentrates on making them better and winning games. His competitive instincts, his maturity, his team first attitude along with his talent make Rubio a #2 pick. Thabeet may go with that pick but that is a team picking to fill needs and you know how I feel about that from long experience. Since Portland took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan because they felt MJ and Clyde Drexler had replicate skills I have advocated taking the best player regardless of need. I won't change my mind now though on the Knicks almost every position is a "need" position so I am in the unique position of getting my cake and eating it too. ; )
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Post by whensly on Jun 20, 2009 13:03:57 GMT -5
my one worry about rubio is his dainty build.
prediction!: (a la the mc laughlin group)
the knicks will trade up in the draft to snatch ricky rubio!
during summer workouts robert tracktor trailor will collide with him
and all that will be left is a pile of saffron"
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 20, 2009 15:25:28 GMT -5
Rubio is slight of build but tough. Put 15-20lbs of muscle on that kid and he's NBA ready except for a reliable jump shot. He's got hitch in his shooting motion that needs work which is surprising since Euro players are well schooled in the fundamentals and they practice so much.
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Post by kgooglog on Jun 21, 2009 8:45:47 GMT -5
Bill...
I think DA and I are in cahoots, but I have to say that the more and more I hear about these PGs, the more and more I can live with staying put at #8, and picking the best available one. I just cannot, however, see Hasheem Thabeet leave for another NBA venue, IF Donnie manages to trade for a top 3 pick. If Hasheem is on the board at #3, for example, and NY has that pick, we have to fill this huge deficiency in our line-up. Thabeet can run the court--I know he must be in better condition to play long minutes--but I see Hasheem filling up the defensive paint area, which, in turn, will make offenses "think" twice about going within 12 feet of the goal.
Can any other college player do that? Conversely, I can live and be happy if NY takes Curry, Evans, or Lawson, with the caveat that we remain at #8.
BTW, Happy Fathers' Day, Bill and to my other Knicks comrades who have kids! This is going to be my first Fathers' Day with my daughter in 5 years! I am as happy as Eddy Curry in a Golden Corrall, today!
God Bless!
Ken
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jun 21, 2009 9:44:20 GMT -5
Good morning gentleman. If I could add my two cents. Thabeet could very well be Zeke in the 21st century. Or he could be a flat role player like Sagana Diop or DJ Mbenga and might not be anything but a 8th string rotational player we spent too much on.
For the last 8 or so drafts we keep passing on the best point guards the draft has too offer. for example as recently as last year we took Gallo over Gordon and every one play their best Spanish inquisition role until we found out Gallo can kinda play. For years we have never had an elite point guard on this franchise aside from Marbury and the previous closest being Mark Jackson and maybe Rod Strickland and Derek Harper too which is sad.
The last thing we can do is afford not to at least try to take the best point guard before another lottery bound team wastes that same talent and you find out that OKC or Memphis has wasted about 7 years of this players life by not putting a playoff team around this nice player they recieve in the lotto.
I said all that to say we have to take Rubio or Curry because they have future game changers written all over them. If we take Thabeet he would look good next to chris Bosh or amare but we dont have a Patrick Ewing as an assistant coach to teach Thabeet to play the pro game especially offensively.
D'antoni isnt a great inspiring factor centers historically so how is Thabeet going to thrive on this teaam with no mentor. This is also why Curry, Evans, or Rubio would be better on this team and relegating Duhon to the bench where he belongs would make me happy because he isnt the player we need to make us playoff contenders. Duhon is overrated and Curry and Rubio may be too but the latter two play with passion that can't be taught and Duhon isnt as great defensively or offensively as he was tauted to be before we traded for him.
I'd take Curry or Rubio with the second overall if we got that pick and the best available with the 8th. I'd even try to package the 2nd, the 8th and Nate to the Clippers for the 1st and maybe Eric Gordon if they'd listen.
-Jason
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 21, 2009 10:53:26 GMT -5
Jason
Some excellent points and I agree wholeheartedly. Our last "elite" PG was Clyde. It's been way too long since we have had a great PG in a city that reveres PGs. The one caveat is that IF we are able to sway LeBron James into signing with the Knicks in 2010 his presence negates the need for a great PG unless that PG is also an elite level scorer. If I knew we were getting LeBron then I could endorse a Wilson Chandler to Washington trade for their #5 pick plus JaVale McGee because then we could take Curry with the #5 and still have the #8 to take DeRozan.
To me establishing our backcourt of the future, adding a defensive, athletic center and still keeping cap room for LBJ would be a fair off season's worth of work. Now if Lee doesn't want to settle for less than he could get elsewhere knowing we could sign him to a max deal after 2010 then we could add some young talent in exchange for him to surround LeBron with a worthy supporting cast.
I don't believe Eric Gordon is a PG but I like the deal proposed. Blake Griffin is a stud player and a helluva running mate for James for years to come. As I said before we don't need an "elite" PG with LeBron but we need scorers and we need players with range. In that scenario re-up Duhon. He is serviceable. I'd also lobby for the Clippers to add PG Mike Taylor into the trade even if we had to sweeten the deal. Gordon, Taylor and Duhon is a very nice guard rotation.
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Post by daglazer on Jun 22, 2009 11:27:27 GMT -5
Good morning gentleman. If I could add my two cents. Thabeet could very well be Zeke in the 21st century. Or he could be a flat role player like Sagana Diop or DJ Mbenga and might not be anything but a 8th string rotational player we spent too much on. For the last 8 or so drafts we keep passing on the best point guards the draft has too offer. for example as recently as last year we took Gallo over Gordon and every one play their best Spanish inquisition role until we found out Gallo can kinda play. For years we have never had an elite point guard on this franchise aside from Marbury and the previous closest being Mark Jackson and maybe Rod Strickland and Derek Harper too which is sad. The last thing we can do is afford not to at least try to take the best point guard before another lottery bound team wastes that same talent and you find out that OKC or Memphis has wasted about 7 years of this players life by not putting a playoff team around this nice player they recieve in the lotto. I said all that to say we have to take Rubio or Curry because they have future game changers written all over them. If we take Thabeet he would look good next to chris Bosh or amare but we dont have a Patrick Ewing as an assistant coach to teach Thabeet to play the pro game especially offensively. D'antoni isnt a great inspiring factor centers historically so how is Thabeet going to thrive on this teaam with no mentor. This is also why Curry, Evans, or Rubio would be better on this team and relegating Duhon to the bench where he belongs would make me happy because he isnt the player we need to make us playoff contenders. Duhon is overrated and Curry and Rubio may be too but the latter two play with passion that can't be taught and Duhon isnt as great defensively or offensively as he was tauted to be before we traded for him. I'd take Curry or Rubio with the second overall if we got that pick and the best available with the 8th. I'd even try to package the 2nd, the 8th and Nate to the Clippers for the 1st and maybe Eric Gordon if they'd listen. -Jason The last champ with an elite PG was Isiah and the Pistons. We have almost 20 years of evidecne that you do not need an elite PG So, I will always pass on a potential elite PG if I have a chance to find a true shotblocking center that can anchor the defense for the next 10 years. I have no doubts that Thabeet will be a Tyson Chandler, Sam Dalembert type center with the potential for more. Let me have that kind of player and this team is an instant playoff contender without messing up the cap to go get Lebron. |
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Post by dk7th on Jun 22, 2009 13:55:52 GMT -5
daglazer you make some arresting points as usual but i have to question thabeet's heart/attitude. from what i saw, admittedly not that much, he didn't seem to have that fire. almost like he'd rather be doing something else except that because he is 7'3" he might as well play basketball. besides he'd have a hard time getting back against the fast break.
tony parker is pretty close to an elite point guard as is chauncy billups. subtract the 6 titles by the greatest player of all time and the average goes up that much more.
moreover the knicks are sorely lacking in the leadership department. thabeet isn't one while all reports and rumors point to rubio having that quality, youth notwithstanding.
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