So What Is Wrong?

[irish2u2]

All right for the second consecutive night we overcame a 20+ point deficit to force overtime.

We also lost for the third time this season.

So what is wrong?

Our defense is obviously an issue but part of our "defense" is a good offense too and that has been abysmal.

I never take an issue when the effort is there. There was a bunch of plays last night involving Elton Brand, Thad Young, Andre Iguodala and Louis Williams where they hit shots nobody could have stopped. All I want is effort so why did we sleep walk through 3 1/2 quarters of this game before finally waking up? What can we do to start games in the first quarter as well as we have been playing the 4th quarter?

Looking at the stat sheet we have allowed 12.6 more points per game than we score (119.3 to 106.7), we are shooting an abysmal 42% from the field and just 29% from beyond the arc on 115 attempts out of 284 shots taken this year. Our opponents are shooting 51% against us. We are getting outrebounded, outhustled and outplayed.

The good things are Gallinari, Lee and Harrington. All three are the only decent shooters on the team so far. The Knicks finally figured out Harrington is better off the bench and instead of sulking he responds with a 42 point effort. Gallinari has launched 36 of his total of 47 shot attempts so far beyond the arc and he has hit 50% of those shots. He is just beginning to realize he must take his guy off the dribble when they jam him at the three point line and he is deadly from the free throw line. Lee has been consistent off the glass and with his scoring.

We are not killing ourselves with turnovers. We are getting beaten off the boards but not by an overwhelming number. At times we show some ability to be a good team but everything is predicated on hitting shots and when a team like ours has to hit jump shots to win games we are in trouble.

We need more easy points and that comes off defense and Duhon. Duhon has just flat out sucked so far this year. His shooting is horrible. Beyond horrible. He is averaging almost 3 turnovers a game and he is not doing a very good job of defending his position. Pretty much every PG we have played has blown past him with impunity. I might mention at this time that Brandon Jennings, who we passed on to draft Jordan Hill, is averaging 20ppg, shooting over 50% from the field, 6 apg and 5.5 rpg. Let me also note he has only played 2 games, he is also averaging 4 turnovers a game and he still has a big mouth and a "me first" attitude.

Still.....

Back to the Knicks and speaking of loudmouths Larry Hughes plays 39 minutes, hits 63% of his shots, grabs 5 rebounds, hands out 6 assists and has 4 steals. WTF??? In the meantime Wilson Chandler has hit 34% of his shots and barely over 12% of his trey attempts.

It's still early and everything is fixable but it seems to me it all starts out of the gate.

Larry Hughes may not be part of our future, he is a loudmouth, he shoots too much and for a low percentage, etc., etc., but he has also handled himself well when it looked like he would not play any at all, he responded to PT by playing extremely well, he can play defense, he can pass and while he is the very definition of streaky shooter that is still better than what Duhon offers now. Bring Duhon off the bench.

Bring Hughes in to start. At the very least it bolsters our defense. Let Chandler, who at least plays with effort, work himself out of his shooting woes. Defensively and off the boards he has proven to be effective.

Up front it seems to me the big issue is Jared Jefferies. I don't see him starting. He does some nice things and he hit some key shots in Charlotte but he is still a liability on offense and not that big a factor on defense.

Did you know that Milicic's projected 48 minute rebound numbers are the best on the Knicks, even better than Lee? He's at 15 rpg and Lee is at 14.7. Darko gets better when he plays more. His game is subtle and as he knows his teammates better the passing improves and so does the help defense. His offense is not that good though it should be better but the fact is he is better than Jefferies and he helps Lee and the rest of the Knicks by at least offering a real center presence in the paint.

Lee obviously starts and so does Gallo. Our young gunner is coming off a 30 point night where he hit several clutch shots. Part of our problems are guys taking shots they have no business taking while not trying to find our best shooter on the perimeter. What is great about Gallo is he won't force things, he can handle and pass the ball and he is learning to take the ball inside.

Harrington, Nate, and Duhon should be the first 3 off the bench. If we see anybody else it is because of fouls or injuries.

The starting unit has better defense with Hughes and Milcic. Hughes is not a prototype PG type but the addition of Lee and Gallo who both can handle and pass the ball plus a good passer like Darko should negate some of the ballhandling issues. We have a good scorer in Gallo starting with complimentary scorers like Chandler and Lee plus real pop off the bench with Harrington and Nate. Since Al can play all three frontcourt positions he gets enough minutes to do what he does best. If you caught the game last night it was vintage Harrington. He played well inside and outside and mixed up his game extremely effectively.

This would be a better team but frankly Miami and Philly have better teams. We should have beaten Charlotte but the talent gap is pretty wide against Miami and Philly. At least the Yankees won and hopefully the football Giants today. ; )

Not to beat an old drum but anybody catch Mareese Speights last night? It's only been 3 games but Speights is averaging almost 17 a game, 7 boards, shooting 75% from the field and only playing 23 minutes a game. He's a talented big man. I wish he stayed a year more in school because for sure I would have taken him over Jordan Hill. I'm still not so sure I take him over Gallo though.

[ironman95]

I take issue with two of your points. First, you can't start Hughes in place of Duhon, as Hughes has no handle at all. He can barely get the ball upcourt. Yes he can defend, and he can streakily shoot, but no handle. Not a good idea. Second, Harrington cannot play all three frontcourt positions, no way. He cannot be a center, not even close. He is a small forward, period. He can play a little PF in a pinch, but he is a SMALL FORWARD. Analyze the Knicks game, last night deeply. They lost it in the first quarter. Who was on the floor that quarter most of the time?.............................................Jeffries. Lee went out early with foul trouble, so it wasn't him. The Knicks lose because Jeffries is on the court, and doesn't know what he is doing there. He can't guard anybody effectively, small guards blow by him, and big guys overpower him. Maybe he can guard a slow SG or SF. That's it. Jeffries and Duhon, those are the problems right now, along with Lee still mostly playing center.............again. I feel a Larry Brown season coming on now............27 different starting lineups, no consistent rotation, and guys not knowing their role on this team. My new starting lineup, 1-5 for the Hornets is: Duhon, Hughes, Gallinari, Lee and Darko. Chandler, Nate and Harrington off the bench. Douglas if Nate can't play(reluctantly). I play Hill or Landry before Jeffries at this point in time. I don't think we are watching the same game there, Bill. We could have had a cheap point guard in J. Williams or C. Arroyo. This is where Donnie has dropped the ball, not seeing that Duhon needs somebody backing him up who can be effective. Arroyo was out of the league last year, and easily obtainable, and we rejected J Williams. Bad moves.

[irish2u2]

Iron

Harrington can and has played PF. He has played center too albeit briefly to draw out opposing centers ala Boris Diaw.

Hughes has played PG. He may not be as good a ballhandler as Duhon but he is good enough to get the ball up the court and he has help with Lee and Gallo.

We can agree Jefferies is part of the problem. We can agree Duhon is part of the problem. We cannot agree on wasting money on a FA PG like Arroyo or JWill because the plan is to keep Mobley on the books and use the extra roster spots if we need them for a trade later. It might be in our best interest to play Douglas more and develop him but we are talking about winning games and if we are talking about winning then my observations over the first 3 games are as follows.

1) Two out of the three games we got out of the box slow and that was more because of lousy shooting (33% against Miami and 20% against Charlotte) in the first quarter than anything.

2) Part of the reason we shoot so lousy is we jack up way too many treys. 40% of our shots are from behind the line and we are making just 29% of them. Harrington is shooting 50% for the year so far from the field. Take away the trey attempts and he is shooting 64% from the field. Wilson Chandler goes from a woeful 34% from the field to a far healthier 45%. Nate is shooting 40% without the 3 point attempts. With his 4-20 beyond the arc he's at 29% from the field. It's not that we are a horrific jump shooting team as much as we suck beyond the arc.

3) To win games we have to be just average on defense and above average on offense. D'Antoni's system is designed to do two things. Get more shots and wear down opponents. From what I can see we are in good shape physically. We are getting shots but if we don't hit them we allow easy points off long rebounds and we expose our poor transitional defense. It should be noted we have "won" the 4th quarter of all our games.

Put Hughes and Milicic in there and you get some size, some perimeter defense plus stealing and some rebounding. We hide the deficiencies of Gallo and Lee somewhat on defense with Darko behind them and we have a 3rd defender in Chandler. Hughes can obviously run the pick and roll (he had a beauty with Lee last night) and if we just keep the ball moving we can utilize a slasher/medium range jump shooter like Chandler to loosen things up for passes to Lee inside or Gallo outside.

Now if winning is not an issue, and I am not advocating it should be, then bench Duhon and start Douglas. Start Hill at center instead of Darko and put Lee at PF. Start Gallo and keep Chandler in there too. Limit the minutes of all those we are sure to jettison after this year which means Hughes, Harrington, Duhon, Darko, etc. Limit the PT for Jefferies even though we only have him one more year after this year. Play Curry ASAP so we can trade him. Play Landry more.

I'd have no problem developing the young guys and giving the team over to Gallinari and Lee. But if winning is an issue then use the resources. Hughes has a big mouth and his offensive selfishness can make Jamal Crawford look like Steve Nash but he can defend and he is at least as capable as Duhon in the other aspects of the game. The message isn't Hughes is great or even good. The message is Duhon sucks. As for Harrington he is a tweener. Early in his career he was a SF. Later in his career he played more PF. He's not a great defender at either position or rebounder but in matchup situations he can be a factor. He's also one of the few guys we have who hits his shots right now so wherever he plays we need him.

[jbnewyork162]

More or less we dont have players that excel at any one thing. Jeffries you would think being a professional and thanking his stars Isiah gave him all that money that he would at least be a shot blocking specialist or a rebounder guru. But what Jeffries excels is being that other guy on the poster, looking on while getting dunked on.

Really there are two things that separate players like Lebron and Kobe from everybody else. Those two things are preparation and effort. Preparation for Kobe is like he sleeps with his basketball somewhere between him and Vanessa at night and during the summer his family knows that, this is the meal ticket and nothing else matters. Yeah super genes help too BUT if Jeffries, Curry and Duhon had Kobe or Chris Paul or Lebron like preparation they'd be a different NBA player.

Effort like Manu Ginobili or Toni Parker or Dirk would turn Eddy Curry into not a superstar but maybe an allstar. When you look at all the four major sports only in the NBA are the elite teams littered with more talentless or half hearted effort. For as bad as the Islanders(NHL), Kansas City Royals(MLB) and Detroit Lions(NFL) they are light years better as whole athletically and in preparation and effort than the Knicks have been in the first decade of the new millenium. Who would disagree?

Call it corny or not even apart of the biggest issue the next thing I am about to say, but ever since the mishandling of Patrick Ewing 9 years ago we havent been good. The last great era and we let our "franchise" player go for peanuts and never offered as much as a front office job or a coaching opportunity or even a chance to retire in OUR jersey let alone what we traded him for Glen Rice and change. I believe we have a Chicago Cubs curse on us that thankfully may be eleviated when or if Lebron comes here next summer. I think we have the old Bosox or Chicago Cubs like curse on us.

Every team has gotten better this year and seemed to save cap room and make signings and we have two legendary coaches in Wilken and LB, probably another one who has a whole system with a book written about it in D'antoni, two legendary figures at the GM spot in Zeke then and Walsh now and even had stars past their prime in McDyess and not even realized in Nene and Ariza, all of picks were either sort wasted(Sweetney or Weis) or traded away like Nene and the ones Chicago and The Jazz have respectively.

No matter who coaches, who plays for us or who is the GM post the Ewing era season there has been a stigma with this team. Blame the players, blame the coaches or system or the management. But the culture which we thought was going to change has not. No matter who plays on the Dallas Cowboys ever, they have a certain standard of what being a Dallas Cowboys is, or no matter who plays on thee Yankees or Lakers they have a certain swagger or qualification of what those franchises are and what it means to play for them.

We dont even treat our legends with respect half the time so how is Dolan or Walsh or Mike D supposed to tell the new generation of Knicks what it means to be a Knick. We have no identity and I havent figured out yet what we can do to rectify it but it is bigger than what goes on the court.

We as fans know what Clyde and Pearl or Ewing and Stark and Oak era were about. Thats what should have been passed down as a privelege to play here like the Yankees, Lakers, Cowboys, Red Wings franchises.

If Lebron comes here he has to take the reigns and teach vets or rookies alike what it means to be a Knick in this Garden,representing this city and state and uniform. We need more culture in our organization. If you got clyde 30 ft from the bench, Coach D needs to have him be a special assistant to Nate and Duhon and even Chris Paul if we are so lucky to get him in the future. Willis Reed or Charles Oakley needs to be invited to teach David Lee fundamentals. Look even Spreewell could help Chandler to be a better slasher and penetrator.

I am not naive like all of this WILL happen cause it wont but it should and is what i think is wrong to answer your query Irish.

-Jason

[irish2u2]

Jason

An excellent and thought provoking post. Frankly nothing I can say improves it and commentary seems foolish when you said it all better than I might have if I were smart enough to have seen your points.

All I can offer you is Karma. ; )

[ironman95]

I agree on most of the viewpoints in these two posts. Especially the too many treys part. I have been harping on that since the first game. I just don't think Hughes is a ball-handler, and to have to rely on him, especially if Chandler is his backcourt mate, will lead to a lot of turn-overs. Chandler never brings the ball upcourt, Hughes rarely. Lee is the one who passes the ball in after a make most of the time, so that only leaves Gallinari to bring the ball upcourt. That scares me. Without Duhon, Nate or Douglas in the game, as an opponent, I would do a 3/4 press, and make them pass it over the top, always risky. I just don't see Hughes running the show at all. He never impressed as a 76er and he still doesn't now. I think the Knicks have to play to win, to answer that question. So I want Milicic on the floor, and so far Douglas has not impressed and Hill is not ready. As coach, I keep trying Douglas at opportune times, and I would opt for Hill over Jeffries, but would prefer to keep both on the bench for now. Good thoughful posts, Jason and Bill. Making me think. Signing JWil or CArroyo would have had no impact on the future, since they both would have taken 1 year contracts. We have an open spot. We need a point guard or a center, that cannot be questioned. Darko or Curry might actually contribute, so I say #1 need is a point guard. Doesn't have to be a great point guard, just one that spells/pushes Duhon and gets us some wins, makes us look good enough for a free agent to want to come here.

[irish2u2]

Iron

The one advantage we have if we are pressed would be good passing tall guys who can see over the pressure. Darko, Gallo and Lee are all good passing big men schooled in how to get rid of the ball quickly.

Gallo is a good ballhandler though he has little experience so far against NBA competition. The book on him though was he could handle the ball like most guards.

I have no idea what kind of handle Chandler has because as you point out the only time he has the ball on the floor is when making his move for a shot. I hope he is better than we think. ; )

[ironman95]

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but if the stated goal is 7 seconds or less, Hughes and Chandler are not the facilitors to accomplish that. Way back when, when Starbury was our point guard, my major criticism of him was how lacladaisical he brought the ball upcourt, like he had not a care in the world. Plays, if there were any under Isiah didn't get going until 10 seconds were left on the shot clock. Which led to unnecessary urgency in hoisting up something at the basket and thus Crawford was born, with help from others. An don't blame me for bringing Starbury into this because you started that other thread mentioning butt-munch Jimmy and Starbury in the same sentence. Can we gete through a 3-game losing streak, hopefully not 4 without mentioning and idiots for the old Knicks and old site? We got plenty to debate without them. We got Jeffries, Curry, Darko, Hughes, Hill and others to debate about. The only excapee is Landry, cause he overachieved just to be here. Nate out for a a week or more, here comes either Douglas, make or break, Hughes getting overplayed, or Gallinari at the 2, idea espoused by DK or DA I believe. Aside to DA when he returns from that cruise. Nets made a MAJOR mistake in letting Ryan Anderson go with Vincanity in the Magic deal. They will regret that mightily. I think we are one player away from a 40 win or close season. Augustin, Arroyo, JWil, Azuuike, Camby, even Raef LaFrentz is looking to come back. Trade proposal since Larry still likes Curry.............Augustin and Bell for Curry and Mobley contract.

[irish2u2]

I think we can agree that with this team 7 seconds or less is out the window. ; )

Walsh has said repeatedly he will not trade the Mobley contract. I don't understand it but I believe him.

With Nate out my two suggestions are play Douglas and also Hill. In the end Hill gives us more than Jefferies and if we can get both of them 15-20 mpg it's only going to hasten an inevitable process.

Yea, the Nets should have kept Anderson but my understanding is they wanted Lee for Vinsanity and the only way Orlando trades Lee is if they get Anderson back. Lee is going to be a good NBA SG.

[jbnewyork162]

As far as overall package Irish would you rather have Courtney Lee on this team or what we have in Wilson Chandler? Both players are similar but I like Courtney Lee because he doesnt turn the on switch off with his intensity.

Wilson kills me by not being aggressive. If pnly he has a Spreewell "basketball court" nature, he'd be a stud in this league.

[kgooglog]

The Knicks will be fine this year, and obviously players who we question are on the court, are there for one reason and one reason only. Showcase. NY must make the playoffs this, but they have to show the NBA that Jared Jeffries is worth $7,000,000 a year for next year. In a summer where nearly every team will have cap room, this is an onerous task for President Walsh.

Larry Hughes is another enigma. There are days when he plays like a good player, but this guy cannot be a play maker, and Duhon sucks. I said it in my end of season report card that the Knicks can never truly be effective with 7 seconds or less offense, since Duhon is not that fast, makes poor decisions when he is not running the pick and role with David Lee, and is a simply a fading pulse, whose time has come. We see dividends with Harrington off the bench, and Duhon must be part of that bench, and let Toney Douglas quarterback this team. I think this kid will make mistakes, but he plays hard and he plays defense, two things Chris doesn't do.

Before we slam Wilson Chandler, let's remember this is a kid who would be a rookie this year and has to adjust to a new position. Chandler is our off guard and I didn't expect him to be the answer at this point in the season, but it is patently clear that Chandler must remember that his and the team's success hinges on his aggressiveness. Will is an 80% FT shooter and his number should be called on isolation plays, for not many of his opponents match up well against him and will have to grab him to contain him. It's funny, but if you take Allan Houston's sot and give it Wilson Chandler, you would have a player comparable to the elite guards in the league who can play defense, block shots, board, and, most importantly, get to the line. Had Houston played defense, he would have been worth every cent of his ludicrous contract.

Gallo and Chandler both must step it up in terms of leading this team into the King James era. Milicic is doing what Milicic does, and NY should be thrilled.

Jared Jeffries cannot be blamed for the team's play in the first three games. Had that prehistoric mammoth not missed training camp, we would have had an offense which Larry Brown said, would have been monstrous. Imagine if Curry were able to be a presence down on the blocks, who commanded double-teaming. Gallo, Chandler, and Lee would be left open to hit wide open jumpers. However, once again, we keep this albatross on the team, instead of buying his fat ass out. That is probably half the reason why Walsh doesn't want the Knicks to pay for Mobley's roster spot with a real player who can contribute, since there are about three players who currently are not in a life-threatening medical situation, who contribute the same as Cuttino does, but who actually pretend to play.

[ironman95]

I am not sure Curry on the floor helps Lee. Curry clogs up the middle, and Lee's game is predicated on the middle being open enough to manuever around. The rest of your points are well taken. I am not down on Chandler, he still is adjusting to a new position, still missing explosiveness due to off-season surgery. i expect him to come around, as long as he gets it out of his head that he is a 3-point shooter. I want to see a win, and Jeffries on the floor, is counter-productive to that goal. If another team wants him, make the deal, if not let's try and win some games. Enough with the "show-casing".

[axios]

great posts all. I've watched all these games and I think everyone has had some great points. Here is what i agree with.

Milic needs to start- Jefferies needs to sit, i havent seen anything that this guy can do yet. Then I would throw Curry out there to induce another injury hopefully career ending. tic

Chandler needs to stop shooting fading away threes and wide open threes, his elbow is flying out. Drive, drive or sit.

Duhon needs to come off the bench as he cant shoot or stay in front of anyone. Id start Douglas and Hughes, what's the worst that could happen we get down by 30pts?

Milic needs to start so he can help Lee, who just keeps picking up fouls. He's not a center, put in Milic., put in Hill. ABJ.

This will be Gallo's team, the kid is a leader, he's tough and he's smart. hope he stays healthy, looking forward to what he will look like in 2 years.

Douglas- Duhon
Hughes-chandler
Gallo-harrington
Lee-Hill
Millic-jefferies

[whensly]

Chandler isn't a guard

[greatgates]

Darko doesn't seem in enough shape to play more than 5 minutes at a time.