|
|
Post by jbnewyork162 on Oct 9, 2009 20:56:13 GMT -5
Guess i must have missed this one but the beach whale "original edition" is on the Celtics and its embarassing this man is at least TRYING to make a team as opposed to Eddy curry, stinking up the joint in practice.
Sweetney, in this forgettable Knicks game I barely paid attention to just flipping back from the Yankee game, but he looks horrible. He looks more bloated than I've ever seen him before. Like Eddy Curry bad but anyway at least Sweetney is trying to make a roster spot on a team that will hold him accountable.
I think that Celtics would be one team that Eddy curry could thrive on with Garnett and Sheed and Perkins to hold him accountable.
-Jason
|
|
|
|
Post by kgooglog on Oct 10, 2009 7:26:45 GMT -5
Guess i must have missed this one but the beach whale "original edition" is on the Celtics and its embarassing this man is at least TRYING to make a team as opposed to Eddy curry, stinking up the joint in practice. Sweetney, in this forgettable Knicks game I barely paid attention to just flipping back from the Yankee game, but he looks horrible. He looks more bloated than I've ever seen him before. Like Eddy Curry bad but anyway at least Sweetney is trying to make a roster spot on a team that will hold him accountable. I think that Celtics would be one team that Eddy curry could thrive on with Garnett and Sheed and Perkins to hold him accountable. -Jason But Jason, having two fat loads on the Celtics, would never occur, and I actually think Sweetney probably was signed for the preseason only. That said, at least he is trying to make an NBA team, whilst Eddy doesn't seem to want to play weekend YMCA ball with senior citizens, many of whom are in far better condition than he is in. That's the difference between fat guys like Sweetney and Curry. Sweets doesn't have an ounce of the skill Curry has, yet he wants it. Curry wants to be slothful and uninspired, which seem to be his only two attributes. To think I wanted Eddy on the Knicks so bad makes me want to cut my wrists and throw them at Zeke. |
|
|
|
Post by ironman95 on Oct 10, 2009 12:37:38 GMT -5
Although the games are blacked out down here unless they are on the NBA channel, I tuned in to the Boston Celtics pregame show last night. The Boston announcers all agreed that there was no way that Sweetney would make the team, not with Big Baby coming into his own. Sweetney was in the background and he looked mighty fat. Even if Sweetney makes the team, when Bill Walker comes back from his knee injury, he will be gone. Walker's got game, which was subdued at Tulsa for two reasons. 1. Michael Beasley was playing his position so he had to play out of position. 2. He was rehabbing the knee(yet again) most of his senior season. He has serious knee problems, but if he ever overcomes them, he will be a good player.
|
|
|
|
Post by jbaer10314 on Oct 10, 2009 13:43:39 GMT -5
If the Knick brass thought Sweetney couldn't drop some serious pounds, why did they draft him? And did the coaching staff BOTHER encouraging him to hit the weight room? I think this is another case of a wasted pick who would've amounted to something if he had the proper support.
|
|
|
|
Post by jbnewyork162 on Oct 10, 2009 19:31:17 GMT -5
If the Knick brass thought Sweetney couldn't drop some serious pounds, why did they draft him? And did the coaching staff BOTHER encouraging him to hit the weight room? I think this is another case of a wasted pick who would've amounted to something if he had the proper support. This is the list of draftees taken after Sweetney in the 2003 draft: www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_history/2003.htmlAmong those notable who probably til this day would have made a difference on this would have been: 11. Michael Pietrus 18. David West(easily the best player in hindsight to take when we picked 9th that year) 21. Boris Diaw 23. Travis Outlaw 27. Kendrick Perkins(the way he plays now I would have taken him) 28.Leandrinho Barbosa(freakish athlete/taller and controlled Nate Robinson) 29. Josh Howard(possibly 1st or 2nd best in draft if u dont like D.West) Then after the failed attempt at international acclaim with Maceij Lampe @ 30 in this draft, drafted after him was: 31. Jason Kapono 32. Luke Walton 38. Steve Blake Then after selecting Slavo Vranes @ #39, brilliantly rounding out one of the worst all around drafts post 2000 since the Fred Weis one, this was selected after Vranes in 2003: 41. Willie Green 47. Mo Williams 51. Kyle Korver Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 in that second round but there were clearly better players coming into the league, at that time, at 9 and since we were drafting for need and didnt have Isiah as our scout/GM then clearly no thought was put into taking the best player available in any of the three picks we chose. Like i said. Oh well. -Jason |
|
|
|
Post by kgooglog on Oct 11, 2009 9:19:51 GMT -5
Jason...Thanks for this list.
It is baffling why the Knicks took an under-sized and clearly overweight PF in Sweets, and I recall a glaring need for height, which I suppose occured when Vranes was selected, I recall he was close to 7'7, but never played more than 14 minutes in preseason.
In a pre-draft magazine I still have from those fateful days, Michael Sweetney was described as a "poor man's Clarence Weatherspoon", and the writer meant that as a compliment. He was equating Sweetney to the 18 win Philly team that featured Jiggly as their offensive threat. Of course, it is common sense to look twice before signing players who are "stars" on horrendous teams, but I believe that faux pas signing goes to one Scott Layden, who never possessed the acumen requied for managing an ant farm, let alon an NBA franchise.
I have one comment to something my comrade Jeff said about Sweetney's weight issues and/or conditioning being somewhat of the organization's responsibility.
I can agree with Jeff, to a degree, since this was a rookie player and did need guidance and the support of what eventually became a huge bust in terms of a player. That being said, I think that weight problems are also the issue of the individual and I know this from once weighing 325 and I stand 6'1. I have lost over 120 pounds of weight without having the serious medical conditions that I now have, so I know it can be done. I did it when I was young, even younger than Sweetney was at the time that his professional career was supposed to have taken off.
I was never an athlete, although, in my early 20s, I did work out relentlessly with weights and cardio. It worked for me, back then, although 35 years later, I'd be lucky to bench 50 pounds or the equivalent of what Eddy's bra weighed in at last May.
I am very lucky that I kept the weight off, although having chronic pancreatitis, diabetes and other medical issues, will basically make you never want to eat again.
I would have loved to have us have that draft done over. Now!
|
|
|
|
Post by irish2u2 on Oct 11, 2009 9:31:14 GMT -5
Just to clear some things up...
Michael Sweetney is a talented kid. He's got great hands, is far quicker than a guy his size should be and he had developed a decent tunaround jumper as a Knick. Sweetney also had an uncanny knack for being in the right place at the right time and using his body to gain position on taller, more athletic players. No matter what he was a 6'8 (and that's stretching it) power forward and that has built-in limitations.
I found it ironic that Sweetney dropped 60 pounds while at Georgetown to play and he could not manage his weight when he was getting paid to play. With his body structure Sweetney could handle 260lbs and still be athletic and quick enough for the NBA. At 300lbs + he maybe gets picked second at a YMCA pickup game because he is taller than 6'. ; )
In retrospect David West is a helluva player. We goofed big time. ; )
Athletes and the teams that employ them are in partnerships. Limited, of course. IMHO both the player and organization have some blame when an athlete is not in playing shape. Being old school I tend to think it is more on the player than the organization and I would love to see the CBA re-written so players like Eddy and Michael could be cut for showing up to play the game in such woeful shape. It would also help if the CBA allowed the teams some real teeth in enforcing "conditioning" clauses so they never have to cut a player who is too fat to play. If most of us show up to work drunk or hung over we won't have jobs very long. Why should players be different when they show up not prepared to do their jobs?
|
|
|
|
Post by jbaer10314 on Oct 11, 2009 12:40:48 GMT -5
<< In retrospect David West is a helluva player. We goofed big time. ; ) >>
We still would've traded him.
<< Athletes and the teams that employ them are in partnerships. Limited, of course. IMHO both the player and organization have some blame when an athlete is not in playing shape. Being old school I tend to think it is more on the player than the organization and I would love to see the CBA re-written so players like Eddy and Michael could be cut for showing up to play the game in such woeful shape. It would also help if the CBA allowed the teams some real teeth in enforcing "conditioning" clauses so they never have to cut a player who is too fat to play. If most of us show up to work drunk or hung over we won't have jobs very long. Why should players be different when they show up not prepared to do their jobs? >>
We've all seen people, especially female celebrities, get slammed for their weight--and unfairly, at that. A few months ago Jennifer Love Hewitt (slurp) got hammered for wearing a size 2 dress. I don't understand that mentality, but I often think someone should come up with a list of the ideal weights for various heights.
The NBA should do something similar with its medical staffs and develop optimal, if not always attainable, weights for players at various heights in particular positions. This is probably more difficult than it sounds because some players, like Magic Johnson, don't fit neatly into the category one might expect them to. Still, the league should make and effort to set limits, and if I recall correctly, some players used to get incentives for reaching and maintaining certain weight amounts.
Then again, that makes too much sense, so the NBA won't do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jbnewyork162 on Oct 11, 2009 14:22:07 GMT -5
<< In retrospect David West is a helluva player. We goofed big time. ; ) >> We still would've traded him. << Athletes and the teams that employ them are in partnerships. Limited, of course. IMHO both the player and organization have some blame when an athlete is not in playing shape. Being old school I tend to think it is more on the player than the organization and I would love to see the CBA re-written so players like Eddy and Michael could be cut for showing up to play the game in such woeful shape. It would also help if the CBA allowed the teams some real teeth in enforcing "conditioning" clauses so they never have to cut a player who is too fat to play. If most of us show up to work drunk or hung over we won't have jobs very long. Why should players be different when they show up not prepared to do their jobs? >> We've all seen people, especially female celebrities, get slammed for their weight--and unfairly, at that. A few months ago Jennifer Love Hewitt (slurp) got hammered for wearing a size 2 dress. I don't understand that mentality, but I often think someone should come up with a list of the ideal weights for various heights. The NBA should do something similar with its medical staffs and develop optimal, if not always attainable, weights for players at various heights in particular positions. This is probably more difficult than it sounds because some players, like Magic Johnson, don't fit neatly into the category one might expect them to. Still, the league should make and effort to set limits, and if I recall correctly, some players used to get incentives for reaching and maintaining certain weight amounts. Then again, that makes too much sense, so the NBA won't do it. Love the sarcasm Jeff regarding the David West thing. About the weight issue, personally i wouldnt even be so concerned with how a person outwardly looks like society does. Some of us exercise enough for our busy routine. Like my job, some of us exercise not only because of daily routine but because it is a job requirement. Some do it religiously and somewhere one of us falls in some catergory in between. But, when you make enough to buy your own gym franchise, let alone have access to the best doctors, physical therapists, conditioning equipment, tons of healthy food and have unlimited team resources at your disposal, why do you come to work looking worse than a middle class man, who probably has less time for his family because of work but can at least do 50 sit ups or 50 push ups a day at minimum? I know lazier people than a professional athlete that look better than Sweetney and Curry. I really hope the day that contracts are given on potential alone and not talent distributed are at an end. Isiah Thomas trying to impress us fans and acting like he found the next big thing in sports should have threw all that money in trying to get what turned out to be Dwight Howard and then i would have understood three picks and multiple assets. We would have had a different structure with what turned out to be one of the best centers if not THE best center in Howard if that's who Isiah went after instead of Curry. But when your plan backfires and you gave up more than what the Lakers did to get Kobe from the Hornets on draft day or what the Lakers gave up on getting Shaq from the Heat or what the Celtics gave up in getting KG from the Twolves, you should just give every cent your organzation gave you and either gave it back or donated it to charity. If I ever see "hindsight" walking on the street he and I are gonna have words I tell ya.   -Jason |
|
|
|
Post by irish2u2 on Oct 11, 2009 15:23:38 GMT -5
Jason
If I ever see Hindsight on the street I'm not saying a word but I am kicking his ass. ; )
Great post. All of you.
|
|
|
|
Post by irish2u2 on Oct 11, 2009 15:26:05 GMT -5
I cannot fricken believe Ken beat me to 500 posts. ; ) I had like a 40 post lead on him not so long ago! ; )
This is my 500th post here and all I can say is my mother in law moved in with my wife and I (in fact the moving van was here yesterday and she arrived Tuesday) and I have been distracted by a lot of different projects and areas that needed addressing. I will catch up to Ken eventually. ; )
|
|
|
|
Post by kgooglog on Oct 13, 2009 8:47:23 GMT -5
I cannot fricken believe Ken beat me to 500 posts. ; ) I had like a 40 post lead on him not so long ago! ; ) This is my 500th post here and all I can say is my mother in law moved in with my wife and I (in fact the moving van was here yesterday and she arrived Tuesday) and I have been distracted by a lot of different projects and areas that needed addressing. I will catch up to Ken eventually. ; ) Bill... Ah, but quality of posts is key, Bill. Whilst I may have quantity now, you always post quality. Sometimes, I can write 45 posts alone on Eddy's breakfasts, but you have set the bar, my good friend. Now, as message board G-Ds, I believe that we should throw thunderbolts from Mt. $tern at Eddy Curry and Michael Sweetney, both of whom may actually start running from them! What is the saying, "Hindsight is 20-20" or whatever? Hindsight is interesting, as we can look back and see who did what and how. I do believe that had Eddy Curry simply remained in shape, he would have been a 20+ ppg-8 rpg player for us. His physical heart doesn't appear to have been an issue when he had a near-all-star berth in his best Knick season--actually, I think it was a career best season, and while Zeke made the fateful deal, we could have had a truly great player in the pivot. Even with his poor boarding and lack of shot blocking. Sweetney's talent in college and motivation to lose weight obviously didn't translate to the NBA level. He was an under-sized PF, and the Knicks, at that time, didn't need to add another super-sized, 6'7 or whatever player, but, once more, this was a move made by the guys in the front office. I recall former tub of lard John Thomas being drafted right before Jacque Vaughn, the PG who, while not an NBA star, would have filled a glaring deficiency for the Knicks at PG during the Preacher Ward days of horrible point guards. Vaughn was not the ultimate answer, but there was another draft that went south for us. To that end, I believe we did well in this draft, and seemingly solved a back-up point guard problem with Toney Douglas, who may end up being a steal. I like this kid's game, his attitude, and he plays with confidence, especially on defense. I do trust that Jordan Hill will share a meal with Eddy Curry and add some weight, and he apparently has the skills to be a good, if not better than good player in the NBA. He may just need a season or two to get to the level of "above average" and he may be just what we need in terms of a spot center and relief for David Lee this year. |
|
|
|
Post by jbnewyork162 on Oct 13, 2009 21:11:57 GMT -5
Hey Ken,
something i wanted to ask some of you guys for awhile but when we were on the AOL i didnt want KT's two cents apart of it So here it goes.
Do u really think that Charlie Ward was a horrible point guard. Yes he made that off color comment about Jews but aside from that he was clutch in most spots and really have just as much passings and driving speed as Duhon does. He seemed quicker than Duhon in hos prime.
I used to see many hate on Charlie Ward and I thought it was Chris Childs who was the garbage PG out of the two. He was a solid pass PG in a Starks and Ewing and Mason and Houston based world. He was what those teams needed at the time i thought.
Even though i put the kabosh on the subject i just created your comment about Charlie Ward made me curious as to why aside from his comment that inflammed the christian/jewish belief system that as a basketball player not many liked him.
I guess i dont understand what he did so bad on the basketball side of things. Thought he served his purpose. Care to elaborate? Anyone?
-Jason
|
|
|
|
Post by kgooglog on Oct 14, 2009 7:37:09 GMT -5
Hey Ken, something i wanted to ask some of you guys for awhile but when we were on the AOL i didnt want KT's two cents apart of it So here it goes. Do u really think that Charlie Ward was a horrible point guard. Yes he made that off color comment about Jews but aside from that he was clutch in most spots and really have just as much passings and driving speed as Duhon does. He seemed quicker than Duhon in hos prime. I used to see many hate on Charlie Ward and I thought it was Chris Childs who was the garbage PG out of the two. He was a solid pass PG in a Starks and Ewing and Mason and Houston based world. He was what those teams needed at the time i thought. Even though i put the kabosh on the subject i just created your comment about Charlie Ward made me curious as to why aside from his comment that inflammed the christian/jewish belief system that as a basketball player not many liked him. I guess i dont understand what he did so bad on the basketball side of things. Thought he served his purpose. Care to elaborate? Anyone? -Jason Jason... I have no problem expressing my dislike for Charlie Ward, as I was one of the more vocal AOL members regarding this PG's lack of creativity, both as a player and as an unwanted Preacher, who was actually needed to be sanctioned by Dave Checketts on his "religion", which was not only revisionistic in its spew, but also was culled from ex-footballer, Reggie White's anti-Semitic writings. Ward, in my estimation, was the worst PG in the history of the Knicks, despite the team's success during those years. Believe me, I was no fan of Chris Childs, either, but Preacher did everything a PG shouldn't do. He basically dribbled himself into a corner where he was double-teamed, and forced ill-advised passes. He constantly picked up the ball on his dribble. He demonstrated no creativity whatsoever with the ball or his passes, and was as slow as a snail. While I have forgiven Allan Houston for being a follower of Charlie's religious preoccupation, as a non-religious Jewish person, but respectful of my birth faith and my family's religion, I found his commentary reprehensible, shrouded in hate, and a distraction to the team. More than one Knick player went on record as saying they would simply walk away in order to not hear Ward's gospel, and he was an annoyance. However, I am doing a disservice by rehashing this nonsense, for I never took Ward, the NBA player, as little more than a third-string player on any other team that would have tolerated his asinine play. NY basically had no offense from this player, and frankly, had NY not had Preacher or Childs, and managed to obtain an upgrade, the Knicks would have been a title team, in my opinion. Clyde, to my recollection, always cited Ward's offensive designs as basically incorrect on almost every level. Back then, Dolan allowed MSG announcers to not be shills, but to be themselves. Ward did hit clutch shots since his shot was so inconsistent that he could be left alone most of the time. I do not think he was a Knick who did anything positive for the team or the organization, and when Grunfeld resigned this clown, I was mortified. It simply continued the streak of mediocrity that still exists, though I think help is on the way in Toney Douglas and, perhaps Ricky Rubio, and definitely in CP3, come 2011. Had it been Patrick Ewing who made religious comments which were patently phrased so they would offend, it would have made me angry. However, Ewing is a Hall of Fame pivot, while Ward is just a famed pain in the ass. In my humble opinion, of course. |
|
|
|
Post by greatgates on Oct 14, 2009 12:59:18 GMT -5
Just to clear some things up... Michael Sweetney is a talented kid. He's got great hands, is far quicker than a guy his size should be and he had developed a decent tunaround jumper as a Knick. Sweetney also had an uncanny knack for being in the right place at the right time and using his body to gain position on taller, more athletic players. No matter what he was a 6'8 (and that's stretching it) power forward and that has built-in limitations. I found it ironic that Sweetney dropped 60 pounds while at Georgetown to play and he could not manage his weight when he was getting paid to play. With his body structure Sweetney could handle 260lbs and still be athletic and quick enough for the NBA. At 300lbs + he maybe gets picked second at a YMCA pickup game because he is taller than 6'. ; ) In retrospect David West is a helluva player. We goofed big time. ; ) Athletes and the teams that employ them are in partnerships. Limited, of course. IMHO both the player and organization have some blame when an athlete is not in playing shape. Being old school I tend to think it is more on the player than the organization and I would love to see the CBA re-written so players like Eddy and Michael could be cut for showing up to play the game in such woeful shape. It would also help if the CBA allowed the teams some real teeth in enforcing "conditioning" clauses so they never have to cut a player who is too fat to play. If most of us show up to work drunk or hung over we won't have jobs very long. Why should players be different when they show up not prepared to do their jobs? Bill If i remember correctly you were one of the posters that wanted david west. I did also but i was not as adamant as you. |
|
