Nate Robinson- shake and bake!

[jbnewyork162]

I'm giving my two cents on Nate Robinson. you can agree or disagree or whatever.

With Nate we get the good the bad and in the past the ugly. There is more asset than burden by keeping Nate on board with our team. I agree he becomes out of control at times but when have the Knicks had a mentor to show him how to settle down. In fact, just last year he played more IN control that in previous years.

He has been one of the "better" perimeter threats and fast break options in years. Getting back to the mentor-ship thing.

Lebron is a born leader. I believe he could get both Nate Robinson in championship caliber form as a sixth man as well as break Wilson Chandler out of his "emotionless" shell. I will get on Wilson too even though this is Nate's thread later.

Nate is a super sub and to me he can have a better impact on the game than Eddie House and on par with a Kerr or Terry Porter or a shorty Toni Kukoc.

There is no way any current or future knick is going to not defend or hustle or play championship caliber ball whether it be Rubio, Nate, Sessions or Lee or whomever, WITH Lebron risking everything coming here from Ohio, in 2010.

Wilson Chandler I believe might also emphatically come out of his dunk the ball and look the same I'm like 15 years old in a grown man's body look he had before he went up for that dunk. Don't get me wrong about Will, because he is our future for right now and the man can ball.

But its almost like even still his skill set and what he does well has only touched the surface and its only a matter of adjusting for the better his on court demeanor. Its the same thing Nate needs. We need a big man in Gallo as a secret weapon of multi talents and we need a smaller player who can bring that multi skilled intensity as a sixth or seventh man. Now if you had three with Chandler to put next to a Wade or Bosh or Bron these are the players we groomed as super subs or support for ELITE players.

Let's be real in that most if not all of our players are going to be or are good backups for ELITE teams. When we get the chance to be elite again by having money for players to come to our team that were better suited elsewhere, I believe Nate would be one of those guys.

I believe if Nate was on Orlando or Cleveland coming off the bench with leadership and a championship mentality already in the coaching staff, the mentor-ship, LA may not have been champions this year. Orlando missed alot of shots in the finals in clutch moments amongst other reasons they lost and they didn't have any other PURE threat from the intensity or three point perspective aside from Hedo because purely the other three point shooters are average at best.

As long as Nate comes back at a price that doesn't hinder our future cap number, we can always fin another David Lee type of player. Nate's intangibles free on the open market in this very moment are few and in between. And furthermore he could be dangerous with the right ELITE players to captain this team.

Even with marijuana smoking, which I don't do, and driving with out a suspended license, which i don't ever condone for obvious reasons, but Nate is like family. He's someone I still have an interest in being apart of this team.

David Lee i am disappointed he talked out of the side of his neck last month and even if we trick him into signing for the qualifying and then turn around and trade him for a pick, I almost, emphasis on almost rather have Eddy curry all season than have David Lee as someone we need to keep long term. David Lee disrespected the team and system who put him out there and made him the double double machine he is.

You notice that Nate is being loyal and quiet as hell right now when he could have been signed by some good team that still have cap room or the mid level by now.
Keep Nate and kiss David Lee goodbye and get Lebron to mentor Chandler to have a breakout career!

-Jason

[ReneNYG1]

Sign me up Jason,sign me up.I had moved to PA for a year and got new plates,when I moved back to NY I got new plates but kepth the old PA vanity plates with the otter which looked cool for my basement ,well I got stopped 6 months later and I showed my get out of yail free card and ask the officer where the best local pizza place was and he told me,well I was eating pizza there and the officer comes in and tells me he ran an license check and that my license was suspended due to lapse of insurance on those plates,he let me go saying don't drive and get a ride but since I moved I never got the notice,needless to say this rap is quite inocent and like N8 this was easily solved and while it sounds severe it's really not IMO.N8 helps kids and is a great motor guy who's allways trying his best,I don't give up on N8,and all that I'm saying is give N8 a chance. LOL N8 is a good guy worth the investment ,I think DW was thinking like you Jason when he made offers to a couple of leader type guys this summer,I think he's well aware of that need ,good call Jason.

[greatgates]

Nate can ball but he seems to be a character. I HOPE we keep him this year. I also hope we keep DLee this year. I don't see how he disrespected the Knicks any more than the Knicks disrespected him. Its just business.

[jbnewyork162]

Its just business, yes Gates but David Lee wanted more money than Odom who is more skilled and is a champioship caliber third scoring option on a championship team. He wanted more money than Artest who would play, defend, rebound, score and ball circles around Lee. He wanted more than Ariza and Ariza has been essential to every team he played for in the last 5 years in making X factor plays that win close games. As a matter of fact LA would not have won most of the games they played in the playoffs due to the intangibles that Ariza or Odom brought to the table i dont care how many point Gasol and Kobe scored.

So yea its business but maybe its bad business because only thee Knicks Lee and Nate are without contracts with the exception of Iverson and Sessions. sometimes you have to compromise. Almost all 30 teams will have some sort of room to give you money, so why are Lee and Nate scared of signing one year deals and just waiting for bigger money next season.

My problem is Bartelstein is one of those brash, Ill get whatever I want type agents who try to grandstand against foolish owners like Isiah was and the old Clippers GM Elgin Baylor was and Ernie Grunfeld is, and usually it works.

David Lee wouldnt even consider any figure under 10 mil and the bluff he stood by his agent with backfired and no team even hinted at stealing David Lee. Charlie Villanueva got 7 mil a year about and that is a player that is more up to David Lee's speed league worth wise.

I dont want to detract from Nate as the topic here but David Lee's are a dime a dozen and the benefits to Nate's game have shown more in wins to me(even though there was a lack of them) than losses where as David Lee's stats were padded with him getting 21 rebounds and the nearest Knick had 6 or 7. Well someone has to get the rebounds so naturally he became a double double stat monster.

The difference is David lee didnt lead his team anywhere close to the playoffs because doesnt play D and he isnt a leader when we were and basically still are leaderless. Dwight howard who is the runner up in double doubles led a team to the finals being the top 3 at his position.

Nate on most teams especially contenders as a sixth man will put them over the top.

Do you really want an angry Lee, who may be inclined not to score as many double doubles or putbacks or hustle plays for a team that didnt pay him what he was worth and instead had to settle for what his agent will be reminding him everyday was a bad deal for a year?

I don't. Nate is more valuable whether we have Sessions or Rubio or Paul or Deron in a few years. Until the next N8 comes along, and we can keep Nate at the right price, why wouldnt you?

Lee has a big ego and nobody balked at his salary demand and if he settled for say 7 or 8 mil instead there could been teams like Portland or Detroit who could have taken a chance on him st8 up or in a sign and trade. He doesnt play Defense and thats why he didnt get a 10 mil a year tract.

-Jason

P.S. This sounds like a alot of David lee hate but in fact its tough love for a man who talked of his neck getting pissed at the knicks like we were supposed to give him Eddy Curry salary. In a time where Nate likes to self destruct he has kept his cool with no less the same urgency Lee has.

[irish2u2]

Jason

Be fair to Lee. His agent sold him on his worth more than anything and you have to know he ran the comps of players with similar stats to Lee and used those figures and salaries (which came at a time when the NBA was more flush with cash) and made Lee believe he was worth the money.

I don't think Lee is money hungry at all. He comes from a well-to-do background and his tastes aren't so outrageous that he needs 10 mil a year "just to feed his kids". ; )

As for Nate I agree with your assessment of him as a player but he keeps acting like a knucklehead and I keep waiting for him to grow up. He brings some tangible skills to the table but he is a guy whose NBA career ends the moment his athleticism starts to fade. Right now that amazing athleticism is enough to compensate for the 6 inches or more in height he gives away to most guards in the NBA. To make himself more valuable he has to act like he has been in the league 4 years instead of 4 minutes.

Speaking for myself I'd like to keep both Lee and Nate.

Now onto the team. I think some players are bench players on a good team. That would be Duhon, Darko, Curry, Hughes, Jefferies and Nate. Harrington may be off the bench but he would be the first guy off the bench.

The jury is out on Hill and Douglas but I think the ability is there for Lee, Chandler and Gallo to be starters on a championship team. Gallo especially has some amazing skills. Chandler is a guy whose ceiling has not even been approached but I feel the opposite way about Lee who is getting close to his ceiling as a player.

LeBron would love to have Lee, Gallo and Chandler on his team.

[ReneNYG1]

Let's hope we keep all our assets and just add,let's not rush to make a move that hurts 2010,we have to sign them to one year deals and then when we trade Curry and Jeffries we can renegotiate a better deal with them.Gary's scaring me on Rubio.I'm not on the Session train.Let's stay together and see what we got.

[ironman95]

I still think they're trying to get Rubio, keeping Sessions in the wings, just in case. Supposedly Gallinari looks great is 100% now. I hope we can acquire Rubio without giving up the farm. Certainly Nate and Mobley, and I would throw in Harrington or Hughes as well. I would try and keep David Lee, and part with him very reluctantly. I don't think the Knicks want to wind up with Sessions, Rubio, Duhon, and Douglas. That's a bit of a logjam at point guard. So sign Sessions, and offer Duhon, Nate and Mobley for Rubio, and maybe Harrington or Hughes(not both). Of course if they would like Curry or Jeffries, I would throw them in and take back all the 1 year expiring contracts that they have! I still think Rubio is Donnies goal(or bust) and it is just a matter of what Kahn will take in return. Players, Money, expiring contracts, any guards other than Chandler. And I am not a real big Rubio fan(not yet anyway) and would rather have Tyreke Evans. Rubio could something special, but I am sure Evans is.

[kgooglog]

Well, no news is bad news, IMHO, and I think Nate is gone, unless Donnie and Mike brought out their spank paddle in the "meeting" held the other day and they all agreed that $2.9 million dollars is a fair offer. I agree with Jason that Nate's positives outweigh his negatives, but I don't believe we should look at other players like Wilson Chandler or even David Lee, and knock them whilst building a case for Nate. Robinson has that curse of being neither a PG or a true SG, although one can argue that he is one of the more lethal shooters in the NBA, when left open.

Here is where I think we need to focus. Robinson will always be 5'8 and, with age, will inevitably lose his athleticism, thus 90% of his game. He may be 25 now but he has 4 or 5 more years of "Krypton" left in that little body, playing at breakneck speed and soaring where others 5 inchies taller than he, have never went. What happens when Robinson can no longer slam dunk or drive down the middle and split defenses up, or consistently hit the outside shot when his legs go? At 30 years old, Nate may be washed up based on losing what we all lose when we reach old age, although at 30, I was already celebrating losing it for years or so. David Lee has a longer shelf life than Nate. He can bang, possibly develop a jump shot, become a better defender, and play better than he does now, when he is 31 or 32. This is why losing David Lee will have an impact on NY, more so, IMO, than losing Nate Robinson.

My core consists of Wilson Chandler, Gallo, and LeBron James. At the risk of contradicting what I just said about Dave, I am not that enamored with Lee, and think that Donnie Walsh was dead on right when he said at the end of last season, that a player is good when the price is right. At $12 million, $10 million, or, and I hate to say it, even at $8 million, I could live without David Lee knowing that my team MAY be able to sign TWO elite free agents if Jared Jeffries is traded away for a second round pick or if Eddy Curry is bought out, as Alan Hahn of Newsday suggested not to long ago, and I have been suggesting since Hardees ran out of fries last year, when Edward Curry couldn't walk because he weighed close to 400 pounds.

Give me Chandler, Gallo, Hill, Douglas, a reborn Darko Milicic, and I think we have something that is better than what is in Ohio. LeBron James has basically braced Cleveland for the inevitable and, like Kareem's last year in the NBA, every home game with the Cavs will be like a sad reminder of what Jim Cleamons, Bingo Smith, and Larry Nance brought to the big 'O'.

In NY, LeBron will benefit from the wing abilities of Wilson Chandler, the unlimited abilities of Danilo Gallinari, and, if NY can excise a couple of contractual warts this season, possibly an Amare Stoudamire or a Chris Bosh or an equally great second fiddle. David Lee or Nate Robinson would fit into that team perfectly, but here is where I believe Lee is a more valuable player. As a complimentary, hard-nosed, rough and tough player, David Lee does what few players want to do and that is not look for the ball on every possession, play under the goal, rebound, and dive onto the floor. Robinson would be a super-sub, and I agree with that. But Lee's value is that he can come off the bench, start, and not act out all over the place about his role on the team. I've been very critical of Dave, but one thing I cannot say is that he is not a team player. Nate, at times, seems to be playing for Nate.

Donnie Walsh is not going to spend money on either Nate or Dave. It s going towards building a new team, one which has a nice little core, even if that core doesn't have Ramon Sessions or Ricky Rubio in it. When you have James, you have little need for a PG and that is why we never signed Sessions and why we will go into this season with Duhon and Douglas at the PG, unless Nate does sign a one year deal. Jordan Hill will be a 4/5 if Lee is here and if Dave decides to play in Hungary, Hill will have a baptism by fire. Toney Douglas may have the most secure slot in the line-up since the Knicks don't even have a starting point guard on their team. Milicic has the ball in his court and it is up to Eddy Curry to show that he was that player Chicago thought he would be when he really weighed 285 pounds. I have no worries about Gallo or Chandler.

[ReneNYG1]

Kenny while I agree with everything you said N8 when he's 50 will still be able to jump Spudd maybe not superman but Spud is no problem.I would like to keep them all and add,we move Jeffries and Curry and we are set,that's all we need to do,the core of Gallo ,Chandler ,Lebron sounds great you add Hill,Duhon,Lee,N8,Douglas and Al and that's a nice group and if Darko comes through we are sitting pretty with what we have,Duhon would be fine if he gets some rest and Douglas can help there,N8 is awesome and please give him a chance,he will mature and is a good guy,he shown he can be a team player and he will get better.Kenny I agree Lee is more valuable even though we are all mad at his agent he is a real good player I would want to keep.