The Knicks By The Numbers

[kgooglog]

As I have spent nearly all day on this message board, trade checker, NY Newspapers, and the usual array of the on-line rumor sites, I happened to trip over an interesting article on HoopsWorld called "State of the New York Knicks". I enjoyed the article as it seemed that the author, Tommy Beer, was generally on target with regard to the title of the article.

The url of this interesting piece is; www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13374


I just snipped two pieces of the article, which speak to the available cash Walsh has on hand now, the current payroll, and how much our payroll will be in 2010-2011. Of course, David Lee nor Nate Robinson are included.

<snip>

"Walsh still has the full mid-level exception and the bi-annual exception to burn."

I snipped this little blurb, as I am unsure as to whether or not the Knicks "lose" the mid-level or the bi-annual exception if they are not used this summer. Can we carry these two exceptions over to next season? In addition, don't we have our veteran's exception? This was mentioned when Tim Thomas was apparently being considered.

Of course, there are several unknowns which would effect NY using the MLE or the bi-annual exception, such as the status of David Lee. I am considering that Nate Robinson will be signed for the $5,000,000 one year contract this week.

I will simply state where I believe we should use these exceptions. I think that the MLE should be tendered to Ramon Sessions, who at 23 years of age, can either end up being a star or, at the very worst, end up being a nice reserve like Chris Duhon. Beer actually stated these words in his article.

Our PG situation is, IMHO, our weakest position and is quite tenuous in that Duhon is still our starter and is an unrestricted FA in 2010. While it may be risky to tender an offer to an RFA, the Bucks are not the Knicks. They have Branden Jennings, who they are building a marketing base around. Sessions wants to start, deserves this opportunity to do so based on last season, and is a player who I believe fits into the Knicks' mission.

In 2010, we would have two PGs under contract; Sessions and Toney Douglas. Thus, acquiring Ramon Sessions seems to be the most prudent use of the MLE, barring the sudden appearance of Ricky Rubio, a player who I definitely think is a real Knick possibility.

I am unsure as to the exact figure of the bi-annual exception. I am almost positive it is less money than what Hakim Warrick's qualifying offer was, but perhaps he would consider a 3 year deal at the salaried figure. If the exception is $2.5 million, would it be an insult to offer Hakim a 3 year deal totaling $7.5 million dollars?r

<Snip>

"But, while a quite and relatively uneventful summer would usually be considered a negative disappointment, this lull is merely part of Walsh's longstanding plan to maximize and maintain cap space for the summer of 2010. And with the reports surfacing that the salary cap may potentially drop south of $50 million next summer due to a decreasing BRI, fiscal frugality is as imperative as ever. As of this moment, the Knicks have six players with guaranteed contracts that run into 2011: Eddy Curry ($11.2M), Jared Jeffries ($6.8M), Danilo Gallinari ($3.3M), Wilson Chandler ($2.1M), Jordan Hill ($2.2M), and Toney Douglas ($892,500K). That totals out to $26.4M. And that obviously doesn't include Nate or D Lee.

And as I detailed last week, Eddy Curry, and his mammoth contract, will have a tremendous impact on the future of the franchise – so Curry's 2009-2010 season is incredibly significant.

So while these past few months could certainly qualify as boring (at best) the final grade can't be handed out just yet…"


Next year, $18,000,000 of the TOTAL Knick payroll of $26,400,000 million is tied up in Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries.

I think getting rid of these two players will allow NY to sign, at the very least, LeBron James, plus one other "elite" free agent. We may be able to get 3 free agents. And keep our nucleus intact.

[irish2u2]

Ken

Assume we have some monumental luck and we trade Curry and Jefferies. I am assuming your criteria is expiring contracts.

That gives us just FOUR players under contract for 2010 with no draft pick in 2010. Now assume we will use the MLE and the bi-annual that still leaves us with just six players and a payroll around 16 million.

The question is would LeBron and Wade, our likely targets, come to a team this thin in depth? Of course the play of Gallinari and Chandler will impact that decision but this would be a seriously challenged team depth wise. You have to assume we use the MLE and bi-annual for a center and PG.

The other issue is either LeBron or Wade would have to settle for less than a max offer which has been calculated at somewhere around 20 million if memory serves me. Two max deals get us over the cap though we could wait till after we sign LBJ and Wade to use the exceptions if we can carry the bi-annual another year.

It's an interesting concept but risky. What if LBJ and Wade pass? ; )

[jbnewyork162]

See and the thin roster concept is what scares me when you are presenting this to a superstar or superstar's next summer. The eradication of Curry and Jeffries contracts may be not as easy as these phantom reports we heard about Tmac for Curry/mobley and Jeffries for Mike James as we think.

Think about it. If these were deals that were on the table since the draft, then why haven't they been made and then there after why wouldn't Sessions and a guy like Warrick or even Wafer been signed yet?

It almost makes me believe these deals were never on the table for long or at all, with the sources always being Yahoo sports or one of the NY tabloids that lie all the time to us fans.

This makes me think no extension for Harrington or Duhon or Hughes or even David Lee or Nate even if they have better seasons EVEN if we trade Curry and Jeffries because a Wade or Lebron is going to want a salary starting at the max possible from free agency. At least I imagine starting at around 17-18 mil a year. Point is we have to rely on summer league guys to fill out the rest of the depth IF we are to stay under the cap for the following summer when guys like Melo come aboard and even the summer of 2012 when guys like Paul and Deron are available through opt outs hypothetically.

If the economy wasn't bad we'd have the bliss of playing the na, na, na, na, nana role! Now if we don't add some type of role players now we will be throughly embarrassed just showcasing Wilson, Gallo, Toney Douglas andd Hill plus an overrated Curry and Jeffries with illsions of grandeur about a team ,those aforementioned men in wait next summer are supposed to get excited with to bring home a ring.

Because the thing of it is, up until the market crash last fall, the knicks as it stood had enough money to have the swagger, to lure almost anyone here and knock all other teams out of the park. What do we do now that reality states that either we had 2 year partially guaranteed deals now at a low price(Wafer-bi annual, Sessions-MLE, Warrick- give him a sniff at least) we will be embarassing ourselves on the market next summer.

I'm afraid that we either will be over the cap after the summer of 2010 for awhile again or not the right free agents at least we thought will come here next summer.

Hmmmmmmmm. What a conundrum.


-Jason

[kgooglog]

Bill and Jason...

You both have valid points, and yes, my criteria, or rather, Mr. Beer's criteria, involved all of our expiring contracts.

I was just shocked to see how much money percentage wise these two players on our roster have sucked from this organization. Jeffries obviously has played, but to continually pay Curry for not even playing a scrimmage game in Vegas would make the Reds shake in their graves.

If both these players were traded for expiring deals this season, it would be great. However, both players do fall off our cap the following season, and as discussed on this board, we have a PLAN B. Other free agents e.g. Chris Paul, will be available in the next couple of years and Rome wasn't built in a day.

I think it is amazing the work that Donnie Walsh is doing to put NY in a position, to have hopes other than ping-pong balls. We do have concerns that will elevate that 2010 number since we definitely need a PG NOW and perhaps our center situation isn't as strong as I think.

David Lee for Samuel Dalembert?

VonWafer aka Ken

[kgooglog]

BTW, I really do believe that we can extend our spending spree until the following year, with LeBron being our exclusive focus for 2010.

I think that Walsh is doing all in his power to change the culture for the Knicks by not showering riches on players who, frankly, are not worth it. That said, if Curry and Jeffries are traded, we do clear up valuable cap space. Any elite FA would understand our plan and I do not think signing summer league guys to minimal contracts is the worst thing in the world.

The worst thing in the world is what Bill said.

What if LeBron or Wade pass on NY?

[irish2u2]

"All your eggs in one basket" comes to mind. ; )

Walsh's task is monumental but I take solace knowing he has a plan to make it all work. Of course David Stern is a major obstacle. In a year where a lot of pundits thought the cap would be near 60 million it's now just north of 50 million for 2010. That 10 million is huge. That's David Lee and maybe Nate. Now put those two with the 6 guys we might have on the team in 2010, sign an elite free agent and then pick and choose a couple of cheaper free agents, maybe our own from Harrington, Milicic and Duhon, and the future looks bright. Stern has made sure the future is cloudy not clear.

[kgooglog]

Jul 27, 2009 8:16:57 GMT -5 irish2u2 said:

"All your eggs in one basket" comes to mind. ; )

Walsh's task is monumental but I take solace knowing he has a plan to make it all work. Of course David Stern is a major obstacle. In a year where a lot of pundits thought the cap would be near 60 million it's now just north of 50 million for 2010. That 10 million is huge. That's David Lee and maybe Nate. Now put those two with the 6 guys we might have on the team in 2010, sign an elite free agent and then pick and choose a couple of cheaper free agents, maybe our own from Harrington, Milicic and Duhon, and the future looks bright. Stern has made sure the future is cloudy not clear.

Bill...

The projected downward spiral of the cap has to come when NY has their most cap room in 25 or so years...I did read something that spoke to the other side of the coin, which was a financial analyst's report that BRI may actually go up based on the innovative, cost cutting measures of many teams, which involve huge discounts on season ticket subscriptions, merchandise, and an increase in attendance figures. That said, for the most part, I expect a very low cap now, when I used to think the NBA would be floating around that $60,000,000 mark...

I just read that Nate Robinson is closing in on signing the one year deal which The New York Times projects may be closer to $6,000,000. In the same article, Robinson's pending contract is said to have a direct bearing on what Walsh will offer David Lee, with speculation that his one year offer will be close to $7.5 million. I do not think Lee will be very happy knowing that he is making just $1.5 million more than 'Lil Nate, but that may be the price one pays when one uses Mark Bartlestein to essentially ruin your RFA period.

Moreover, it appears that due to Nate's immenient signing, Ramon Sessions will no longer be a consideration for the Knicks. Donnie is clearly in a cost-concious mode and probably can use the two exceptions the Knicks have for next season, if needed.

I think the one positive that you bring up is the possibility of us resigning our own free agents to be, specifically players like Darko Milicic, Al Harrington, and Nate. There is a thought that Walsh would consider a long-term deal for David Lee, but it would probably evolve as a result of his play this season.

I feel very optimistic, knowing that Walsh is making additions but not at the cost of our capspace for 2010 and beyond. Our core players are very young and I do not see any of them aging out of the NBA before the hopeful arrival of LeBron and my personal choice for the following year, Chris Paul.

If Jeffries/Curry are not traded and simply fall off the cap in 2011, we will be able to sign another elite free agent from that class. Donnie is building a team the right way, IMO. If it takes 2 more years to put together the complete team, than so be it. I also take solace that we have finally struck gold with a team president and GM with a plan and with a vision.

[kgooglog]

I also read, and this is no joke, that the Knicks are very serious about signing Von Wafer to a portion of the bi-annual exception for this season alone.

I cannot deny that I am very much in favor of this move, since getting to say Von Wafer every day in basketball posts, is a dream come true.

I know DA thinks Von Wafer's shooting accuracy makes Larry Hughes look like MJ, but, can't we support this one move, knowing that the player's name is worth, as a minimum, $1.25 million?

Von Wafer. It just sounds so perfect for a NY Knick player.

[ReneNYG1]

Kenny I pass on Sessions for various reasons,first I like Duhon and think he's better than a backup and if we give him rest he'll put up better numbers in his second year,I"m really high on Duhon more than most,I allways loved Duhon and his game can improve with rest .We have N8 and Douglas to pickup minutes in the point so unless we get a star I'm ok with the point ,my concern is with the two because we are planning to use I'll Will there and I guess N8 as a backup but if we do get Rubio who do we give ,Chandler is the first mention so then we will have a hugh hole at the two and a load of point if we get Sessions we would be overloaded at the point ,I'm not sold with Sessions as my point of the future and are you willing to put the point guard duties on Sessions or do you think we Rubio we might have a better chance of an impact there.Sessions is no Kidd or Rubio so I pass on Sessions we have a cheap young guy to gamble on with Douglas who will require minutes to develope.feel me brother,I will be taking down this N8 poster soon I just wanted everyone to please give N8 a chance.

[ReneNYG1]

Kenny I believe the max is 17 million so then it would work perfect with your calculations of 16 million payroll that leaves 34.So two 17 million deals to Lebron and Wade.

[kgooglog]

Rene...

The NY Times is reporting that the Knicks will be signing Nate to a $5 to $6 million dollar contract this week, and that NY will not pursue Ramon Sessions.

After thinking about how Donnie Walsh is managing the Knicks budget, I think it would be better to have Nate as well as Toney Douglas handle the back-up PG duties, as Duhon pledged to be in better condition this year, which means he will cut back on his partying ways, which I hope he really will...

Please keep up the awesome KRYPTONATE poster! It is really a magnificent tribute to Nate.

[ReneNYG1]

Kenny I know you like Von Wafer the name and person,how about Luther Head,he impressed me with his brief play and a good name,Head.LOL
He has mad hops and length but I obivious have not seen enough of him to make a good judge but he got cut.I think th poster might be too much,I made it that size so everyone could see the veins and it's pretty cool,but I can look at that everytime I log for too long it's so dam big.May I say it bigger than lard ass.LOL eating the veggie burger.

[kgooglog]

Jul 27, 2009 20:45:10 GMT -5 ReneNYG1 said:

Kenny I know you like Von Wafer the name and person,how about Luther Head,he impressed me with his brief play and a good name,Head.LOL
He has mad hops and length but I obivious have not seen enough of him to make a good judge but he got cut.I think th poster might be too much,I made it that size so everyone could see the veins and it's pretty cool,but I can look at that everytime I log for too long it's so dam big.May I say it bigger than lard ass.LOL eating the veggie burger.

I like the psychedelic feeling the Nate poster gives me, Rene. I love it!

Insofar as Luther Head is concerned, he is another player whose name is worthy of a signing. I can just hear Clyde saying "Head seems to have lost his head on that last shot!"

I think its great that we can post pictures here and not have to be computer wizards (in my case)...

[jbnewyork162]

It just concerns me that we are relying on just signing two players out right even if we do lose curry and Jeffries and have WAY less than the league minimum of required players to play. We may want to look at some two for ones with the players we do have like Harrington for young sophomore and a pick. duhon for a late first rounder to a contender like San Antonio to be Tony Parker's backup or something I don't know.

But 6 or 7 guys plus a WADE AND LEBRON would make those two pause and probably stay on their respective teams. The fact that New Orleans is playing David West with a 2 mil contract while playing like he should get paid what Rasheed Wallace made annually last year and yet Jeffries gets paid three times what David West does and should be getting the vets minimum for the most part just boggles my mind.

How did some of the players in the NBA make it in?

This is my final point. Soccer talent is global. Baseball is our national past-time and we(USA) along with Central and South America and Japan provide the deep talent you pay top dollar for and their drafts and farm system is deep. American Football has a deep draft but we get our second national past-time stars from almost every football program in the nation, never lacking in talent and sometimes finding that starting QB in round 6. Hockey is globally but most Canadian, American and Northern European also not lacking in talent and grabbing kids right out of high school age.

Now how is it that you have all that deep talented and passionate play with multiple superstars in multiples cities and teams respectively in all the sports i mentioned above, but you only have two rounds and players making more annually sometimes than an NFL'r or a hockey player, and you our team for instance, that dispassionate, out of shape, spiritless, not even at the top of their game men calling themselves the best in their sport, no less the best NY could acquire.

What were the fools before Walsh got here thinking but what more importantly is wrong with the state of the "quality" of our league when you measure it and you can honestly say that as bad as the Islanders are or the Kansas City Royals are or the Cincinnati Bengals are you cannot do what they do losing your best day. you look at the knicks and I'm pretty sure a tall reasonably fit older gentleman not yet of social security age that may patrol the boards could better than what Jerome James did or what curry has NOT done, if you keep in shape.

Their are like 8 superstars in this league with the rest regular stars, and mostly people who will NEVER make the hall of fame, first or last ballot, let alone your son's high school JV team.

-Jason

[kgooglog]

Jason...

I have no idea how Jared Jeffries has an NBA job. I have no idea how Jerome James continues to suck millions of dollars from the Bulls. There can only be one answer. Isiah Thomas.

I wish Zeke could recruit my old broken down ass and sign me to a vet's minimum after he gets fired from FSU and signs on with Golden State...