Random Thoughts

[irish2u2]

Just some random thoughts about what is going on so far in the off season....

The announcement that the salary cap may drop significantly next year from 57.7 million this year, which is 1 million less than last season, to maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 million may cost us David Lee. That extra 6 million dollars or so is likely what it would cost to keep Lee. Now I am thinking the Knicks will look for a sign and trade scenario that includes one good young player still on the rookie scale and an expiring contract. Walsh could gamble and keep Lee and then trade assets next year before the free agent signings begin but that is risky and Walsh impresses me as the type of NBA executive who doesn't take a lot of chances. Of course if Walsh can deal Eddy Curry by using the Cuttino Mobley contract maybe there is room for Lee and a big free agent signing too.

Lee's agent Bartlestein is posturing. He knows there is no way he gets 12 million a year for Lee but this his way of angling for the 10 million he stated Lee was worth. Since there doesn't seem to be a waiting line to sign Lee I think agent Bartlestein will have some serious 'splaining to do with his client.

BTW, Paul Millsap, a player very similar to Lee, hasn't gotten an offer yet from the Jazz. Very interesting....

I still don't get the pursuit of Grant Hill. Mind you I have lobbied for years to get him on the Knicks but why now? He can still play but he hinders the development of some of our young guys. The only reason I can think of for signing him is that Hill is a respected leader and the type of guy players like to play with especially players like LeBron James. I think that was behind the pursuit of Jason Kidd but really the guy we are after is Steve Nash. LeBron James would LOVE to play with Nash. Nash could add 5 ppg to LeBron's average and up his FG% with lots of easier shots.

Toronto is up to something. First they sign Andres Barganini to a 50 million dollar extension. They may be overpaying for him but he's a center and he had sort of a break out season last year. Centers who are good are a rare commodity in the NBA and after all Barganini was a #1 draft pick. Getting Turkuglu was a big move for Toronto. I get Hedo's preference for a more European city like Toronto but this is one of those symbiotic type signings where both sides benefit. Hedo gets quality of life and the Raptors get an excellent scoring forward to go with Chris Bosh who may now strongly consider staying with Toronto and being the foundation of a very strong and tall frontline. With Jose Calderon and a big scoring guard like Demar DeRozan that is the making of a good basketball team.

I like the Celtics signing of Rasheed Wallace. He's still a very good player who should make that imposing frontline even better providing Garnett returns healthy next season.

Losing Turkuglu was a blow to the Magic but possibly getting Brandon Bass may negate that loss. Bass is a good compliment for Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis. Now add Vince Carter and the loss of Turkuglu

For the first day of free agency it's been quiet which tells me the new cap, the rumors of next year's cap being even less and the financial state of the NBA in general are putting a lot of pressure on the market. Teams are proceeding carefully and not throwing money around as they have in the past. Isiah Thomas would have a lot of trouble in this economic environment. ; )

My second favorite part of the online Knicks experience (the first is the people I have met ; ) is trying to play GM. Walsh is a tough guy to read which is good for the Knicks. He doesn't tip his hand, he doesn't panic and he actually has a plan.

Here are my thoughts about what the Knicks could do now. True genius steals liberally from others so I will steal Ken's idea. ; ) Trade Curry and Mobley's contract for Tracey McGrady. It's really not much of a gamble for us since TMac has an expiring deal and it both saves Houston a lot of money and delivers an option at center in case Yao Ming misses next year because of his foot or the worst case scenario that the injury ends his career.

Take the chance at signing Lee to an extension but make it 2 or 3 years so he eventually gets the payday he so richly deserves after we add, hopefully, a star player to the mix. That's all I do right now. I think our 2 new rookies are keepers and we may find several players off our summer team that can fit the roster and system needs. I don't think we get Grant Hill because I honestly think he wants to win a title. I'm happy we did not get Jason Kidd. He's a good player but I don't think he's a fit in any way to the Knicks. My personal hope is we develop what we have right now because the free agent scenarios are so much in flux right now.

[daglazer]

Personally, I would let Lee walk away unless he signs a one year deal. We are going to need the cap space and Lee is just not good enough to warrant the salary that he wants.

[mercury]

I believe Lee will be dealt. If Walsh wanted Lee he could of signed him by now. Walsh is playing hardball and will only make a deal for Lee at the very last moment when teams will become most desperate. The papers mentioned the Blazers have Blake and Outlaw on the table. Both make four million for the 09 season then become free agents. I could live with this deal if nothing better comes about. The beauty of having players with expiring contracts after the 09 season is the Knicks can resign them after using all of their cap space, because we have their Bird rights.

[jbnewyork162]

Correct me if I'm wrong mercury but birds rights are only attainable if the player(s) in question have been on the team at least three years

[garyd]

..but to me Grant Hill is down to Phoenix and NY. Neither will win a crown this year. I would take Grant since he rediscovered his cutting move to the basket, boards and passes well, and is a smart player. With Q gone, G Hill would be the SF with Chandler moving to SG.

I am more apt to move Lee and keep Nate for the reasons that Nate is a "microwave" scorer off the bench and as such you can live with his sometimes wild aspects on the court. He is also one of the Knicks few accurate three point shooters. Lee is a good rebounder and average shooter that is more easily found. It will be interesting to see Jotdan Hill's game in the D'Antoni system next week.

For both Nate and Lee I see limited interest at teams signing long term deals this year as everyone points, with maybe misplaced hopes, at the 2010 FA class. By fallback the Knicks may get cut rate one year deals with both. and maybe thats what Walsh is contemplating.

The reality for a change is that the Knicks have a plethora of offense talent but need to shore up their defense and have taken steps through Jordan Hill, and maybe Grant Hill (a still good defnsder) and Milicic.

Gary

[ReneNYG1]

Gary I though N8 was shooting great this year and he ran to a very bad slump,but if you take his slump out ,he had a great year,I think he has a really good shot and agree to we should keep him for his shooting and energy,Lee I want to keep as well because his shooting will improve and he uses both hands very well so he'll get his points when he learns more moves in the paint to take advantage of his dexterity.I also think Lee and N8 are good passers and N8 is getting a bad rap IMO he had some very nice assits this year and when you have new players it's hard to get the timing right to begin with and I think both will improve alot this year so I wouls sign both long term at resonable rates but if Lee won't sign for 8 per and N8 for 6 per then I pass and get the best young talent and picks.I agree our best move is to keep both at good rates ,IMO both can add to their games by improving each year with our new coach,if DAnt thinks they can't that is another story but I think both Dant and DW see the talent of both and the intangibles they bring,what we as fans don't see is that other players have flaws too,what I like to see is improvement each year and we can all agree that both have improved each year and usually about the fourth year in the league you can than see what we have and if then it doesn't work then we can allways trade them layer,but I don't give up on them and sign both to reasonable deals and get rid of all our other assests( Harrington ,Duhon) to get rid of our bad contracts in Eddie and Jefferies.

[axios]

Great posts all, truly a pleasure to read.
I like the Tmac trade, but if not, let's get Curry out there and then dump him.
I think signing Lee to a 1 year makes sense bc then we can give him what he wants.
I wanted Kidd but I'll settle for Hill. Even if it is a rental, we need a player, with brains, a leader, someone who can tell people where to go, what to do, someone with gravitas on the floor, we have no one. Hill can be that guy. He can play point forward or the two and be the guy with the BRAIN on the floor when the other team is making a run or we need a basket. someone who knows what the right play is.
Most likely LBJ is not coming here. Im not that disappointed, I dont mind this work in progress, getting him would be like cheating. We need to get a PG with a brain sooner than later, or else Duhon wont be able party as much and we dont want that to happen.

[greatgates]

Jul 8, 2009 20:04:05 GMT -5 daglazer said:

Personally, I would let Lee walk away unless he signs a one year deal. We are going to need the cap space and Lee is just not good enough to warrant the salary that he wants.

Totally agree DA. As the cap moves backwards toward ~50 mil we do not need 20% of it tied up in David Lee.

[neilverson]

I'm happy we didnt tie up money on Jason Kidd. I think Nash is still a possibility. As for Grant Hill, sure- I'd like him but doesnt that take away time from Gallo? Also While Al harrington is likely a goner by the deadline or next summer the latest- he is talented and is the most proven scorer on our roster. Especially if we made tha proposed McGrady trade, another logjam at small forward. If we pick up Hill, who starts next year where, and who plays major minutes?

[kgooglog]

IMHO, I see Donnie Walsh completely rebuilding this team this offseason, by the trading deadline, and next summer. In every interview on television or in the papers, the man mentions 2010-11. I beliee we will ink not one, but at least 2 elite free agents, and if Walsh can do the Curry/Mobley and Jeffries/Nate deals, we have our third superstar free agent. The cap may lower but Walsh knows how to build excellent teams with limited resources.

All these asinine low IQ players left on the Knicks are gone, IMHO, after the 2010 season. David Lee will not even come close to an $8,000,000 year pact and if NY can sign him, Donnie will lock him up for $6.5 million for 4 years. N8 is history as is Jeffires, and Fat Load. We have several intriguing players who will be seen during the summer games.

If a player don't fit, Walsh will ship him out.

The only"keepers" on this team are Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Jordan Hill, and Toney Douglas. I think Saer Sene has a great opportunity to be on this Knicks squad and will accept a one million dollar, one year deal.

I see David Lee signed and traded, and it may be to Portland or another team. Walsh will not take back any damaging contracts, and I'll be honest here. I'd sign and trade Lee for a 2010 high draft pick and an expiring contract. We do not want any multi-year contracts!

We are poised to make a huge spalsh in the FA summer of 2010 and we have a great young core for the Knicks to build around.

[whensly]

Hey General Lee might end up taking a 1 year with the knicks..that wouldn't be a bad thing

[kgooglog]

Jul 10, 2009 19:11:05 GMT -5 @whensly said:

Hey General Lee might end up taking a 1 year with the knicks..that wouldn't be a bad thing

Mouse...

I agree with you from a Knicks point of view, but let's put ourselves in David's position. He had a career year last season, his agent, Bartlestein, foolishly believes that Lee can command $12,000,000 per, despite the fact that better PFs have signed for 60% less than that figure, and Lee is, justifiably, expecting to be rewarded for his yoeman-like work ethic.

That being said, Donnie Walsh is in the driver's seat and with 2010 looming, Lee's signing of the one year qualifying offer of $2.7 million, is a huge risk for The General, who would then be an unrestricted FA in 2010.

Suppose David has an off year, sustains an injury, or that Jordan Hill simply outshines David at PF? Conversely, no team has made an offer for David, unless a sign and trade which has to appeal to Walsh, comes in. I do not have a list of RFAs, but only know of one player who I think Walsh may be keeping in the back of his mind, and that is Ramon Sessions.

I keep reading rumors that the Milwaukee Bucks will go to the mid level exception to keep Sessions. However, the Bucks simply let PF Charlie Villanueva walk away without so much as a "Thank You" card from the Detroit Pistons, who basically made the best splash in the FA market this year. Charlie is in the same "class", if not more offensively polished than Dave, and he signed for $7,000,000 over five years, which is essentially Jerome James money, but for a productive young player. The Bucks need to fill the gaping hole that Villanueva left, and David Lee may fit that spot. For Sessions, of course.

I see two scenarios for David Lee. One would be that the Knicks sign him for the MLE or slightly more, in order that the Bucks will not retain Sessions--I'm thinking $6.5 million and trade him to Milwaukee for the 23 year old PG. The other thought I have, is that Walsh simply takes advantage of the market, and signs Lee for $6.5 million over 5 years, front-loads the contract this season, keeps 2010 summer's slot at around $2.5 million, and the balance is spread out over the remainder of David's contract. I think we will all be hailing Walsh's patience with both Lee and Nate Robinson, because the NBA market is at its lowest point ever.

Who would have thought that Ron Artest, Charlie Villanueva, Rasheed Wallace, and other "stars" would have accepted MLE deals or less? Conversely, I think Dallas completely overpaid for Jason Kidd, Toronto went nuts for Hedu Turkoglu, who is a nice player, but is not worth $10,000,000 plus and his addition may ensure that Bosh stays a Raptor, which I do not think will happen, and D-Wade as well as the King have up to July 18th to sign contract extensions with their respective clubs, and from what I've read, James has no intention of doing this and Wade supposedly is questioning the Heat's commitment to making themselves better.

David Lee, for all of what he has meant to the Knicks, is not in the class of any of these players, with the exception of Hedu, who is a borderline star and 4 years older than Lee. Despite this horrible FA market, Lee needs to ensure that he has money coming in for the next 5 years, and, sadly, for Dave, his best season came at the wrong time for his financial windfall. $6.5 million for 5 years, IMHO, will be David Lee's deal.

Nate Robinson was reportedly agreeable to accept the one year qualifying offer, which in his case, is just under $3,000,000. Since I don't think Nate is in the Knicks plans, he makes the Kenny Thomas (Kings) for he and Jared Jeffries the perfect trade for Sacramento and New York. Thomas is a useless player, but his deal is yet another expiring contract which will just fall off the Knicks payroll at the end of the season. NY saves close to $10,000,000 in valuable cap-room.

The Houston Rockets, IMHO, have a bullseye painted on Eddy Curry's ass and are simply waiting to see this reported 50 pound weight loss in action, or at least, on film. The Rockets do not have Yao for this year and possibly never again. They need a pivot who can score, and despite their acquisition of Trevor Ariza, the reality is that T-Mac is basically done as well. The Knicks can toss Al Harrington and Eddy Curry at them for McGrady, and another $12,000,000 is cap savings arrives at the end of the season.

$22,000,000 saved if the Nate/Jeffries and the Curry/Harrington or the Curry/Mobley deals go through. These deals assure the Knicks of two elite free agents, even if we acquire Sessions. We will have the most cap space next year of any NBA team IF we can dump Nate, Jeffries, and Curry.

Simple math, and I am basing this on a rumored $50,000,000 cap which seems a bit improbable to have a $7,000,000 decrease imposed just when New York gets its "swag" back (My daughter taught me this work, okay?)....Probably makes no sense.

[irish2u2]

I see David Lee signing a qualifying offer as one of many possibilities for the Knicks but maybe not the best solution.

I'd like to keep Lee if the price is right for 2010. I don't think the CBA allows much flexibility in "back loading" a contract which would solve all our problems with Lee and the cap. I think our best solution with David to keep him is limiting the length of his contract. It's a gamble by Lee but at least he makes at least twice the qualifying offer. To work there has to be an implied relationship with Lee and the Knicks and Bartlestein stands in the way of that kind of "understanding" between Walsh and David. Bartlestein wants his payday now.

So the solution to Bartlestein is still to trade Lee. I don't see many suitors lined up to make such a deal.