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Post by kgooglog on Jul 5, 2009 17:12:54 GMT -5
The subject title is the contract ex-Milwaukee Bucks PF Charlie Villanueva was signed to by the Detroit Pistons according to CBS.Sportsline. Ron Artest was quoted as saying that he would "play for nothing" in order to be signed by the Los Angeles Lakers, and is reportedly set to sign a MLE deal with LA, expected to begin at $5.6 million dollars, once the salary cap is set by the NBA. Rasheed Wallace is also considering Boston's MLE, but is going to test the FA waters. So, what is my point?
David Lee's agent, Mark Bartlestein, may, in fact, have the 12-15 teams who want David Lee's services. However, according to HoopsHype as well as CBS. Sportsline, the Portland Trailblazers, who appear to be Dave's strongest suitors besides the Knicks, have approximately $8,000,000 to $9,000,000 in open cap space, yet are a bit wary of making an offer to Lee based on the Hedo Turkoglu saga which, is one of the most unusual free agency decisions I've ever heard of in my life. Considering that the Toronto Raptors are mired in mediocrity, will lose CB4 next year in all probability, and that Portland is located in the USA, thus the their reported five year, $50,000,000 to Hedu is actually more than the $53,000,000 offered by Toronto, makes me convinced that the Turkish Community, international flair, and lifestyle are, indeed, more important to Hedu and his family than the heavy Canadian taxes, which, in effect, made Portland's extremely generous offer much less important than winning basketball for Hedu. Hedu is now a Raptor, and this was a major coup for the Toronto organization.
Back to David Lee and Portland, who Bartlestein has even acknowledged, will have an extremely rough time in signing our RFA David to their remaining $8,000,000 or $9,000,000 (sources vary as to how much Portland does have in capspace) due to several factors. The Trailblazers are targeting PG Andre Miller, as well, and this player is a superb player, one of the few pure points left in the league. If Portland tenders a deal to Lee, the Knicks have ten days to match and the Blazers can lose both Miller and Lee, if they wait for Donnie Walsh's counter-offer. Moreover, David Lee is entering his base year contractual period, making it nearly impossible for Portland to acquire the Knicks PF, unless another team is involved. Most vital to the David Lee "choice" remains the fact that he wants to remain a Knick and although Bartlestein is citing every NBA team's interest in David, the point is what I noted in this thread's subject; Charlie V's $35,000,000 five year pact with Detroit.
Why the Bucks let a young, scoring talent like Villanueva simply walk away for what amounts to little more than a mid-level exception deal, is a mystery to me. David Lee and Charlie are, IMHO, comparable talents, despite Charlie being 6'11 and a far better shooter than the General will ever be. Lee obviously is the better rebounder and has played out of position for over a year. However, and this is the question I ask my esteemed colleagues, is David Lee worth what Toronto ended up paying for Hedu Turkoglu or worth what Villanueva signed for?
Donnie Walsh said in several interviews, words to the effect, that "a player is considered good if the player's salary is commensurate with his talent." If Donnie's reported offer of $8,000,000 per year for 4 years is the threshold for Lee, I actually think that is too much for the General. In 2010, Lee will be the fourth scoring option on the team, at best, and, due to the arrival of our FAs, Jordan Hill's development, and the development of Danilo Gallinari, may even be relegated to a reserve role on the team. In other words, a front-court which very well may consist of LeBron James, Chris Bosh, and Danilo, has to make Walsh think of David Lee not as the starting pivot for a horrific NY team in 2008, but as an extremely valuable "role" player who may have to come off the bench come 2010-11.
Also, according to on line reviews, Jordan Hill is a very special player, one who is drawing comparisons to a more refined Amare Stoudamire, at the same period in their careers. Hill, who is closer to 6'11, may actually be able to supplant David Lee at the center position, and Darko will definitely be insurance at the 5 as will Saer Sene.
The bottom line is what I wrote in the subject--numbers. I believe that David Lee's "options" are extremely limited, for, in one of the worst economies this nation has ever experienced, Lee, who may have commanded $8,000,000 per annum over several years, may have to look around at what better NBA forwards are considering as their primary source of income. If his agent isn't looking at Ron Artest, Rasheed Wallace, Trevor Ariza, and Charlie Villanueva's pending contracts, than Donnie Walsh is surely doing so.
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Post by will1682 on Jul 5, 2009 22:18:31 GMT -5
With the current economic status and the fact that the NBA borrowed 200 million to help assist some franchises this past February, the writing has clearly been on the wall for all free agents that the paydays will not be what they once were. With David Lee's situation, I knew this would be the case. I firmly believe that no other team will sign him to an offer sheet at 10 per. Portland can offer 9 per and even they are hesitant. The economy has indeed provided Donnie a bargaining chip. To be honest, I dont even know if I believe the 4 years/32 million rumor. That didnt come from an official source within the Knicks right? I can never see Donnie letting that information out until its official, if even then.
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Post by kgooglog on Jul 6, 2009 6:41:45 GMT -5
With the current economic status and the fact that the NBA borrowed 200 million to help assist some franchises this past February, the writing has clearly been on the wall for all free agents that the paydays will not be what they once were. With David Lee's situation, I knew this would be the case. I firmly believe that no other team will sign him to an offer sheet at 10 per. Portland can offer 9 per and even they are hesitant. The economy has indeed provided Donnie a bargaining chip. To be honest, I dont even know if I believe the 4 years/32 million rumor. That didnt come from an official source within the Knicks right? I can never see Donnie letting that information out until its official, if even then. Will... The Knicks never even tendered an offer to Jason Kidd, despite Mark Berman's misinformation that NY offered a three year MLE to him. The NY Post as well as The NY Daily News' Frank Isola, reported that Walsh would go up to the 4 year, $32,000,000 deal in order to retain David Lee. The Knicks never disclosed any information regarding the General, IMO. The organization's policy on not discussing player salaries is obviously still in place and I agree with you that Donnie never said anything about Lee, based on The NY Times report on Jason Kidd never even talking to Donnie Walsh regarding any type of contract or money during their "3 hour tour". I think FA ex-Bucks Charlie Villanueva set the bar for how high a team with the most cap room in the NBA would go for a scoring, promising, young PF. Detroit got Charlie for little more than the MLE, 5 years/$35,000,000. There is no way in hell David Lee will see $9,000,000 from Portland plus, as we both noted, the Blazers are extremely wary of even making an offer, knowing that NY can and would force either a sign and trade, simply resign David after a 10 day waiting period which would allow other FAs to simply slip on by--notably Andre Miller who the Trailblazers are actively chasing, and the most important variable of Lee wanting to remain in NY. Even Mark Bartlestein stated that New York is David Lee's preference. Lee is also a base year compensation player, which virtually makes it impossible for Portland to go after David unless a third team is involved. This economy is the worst one for an NBA free agent, many teams e.g. Oklahoma, would rather wait until next year to go after a better FA class, teams with cap room e.g. Detroit, already used their monies and are no longer threats for 2010-11 FAs let alone stealing David Lee from NY this year, teams that did have interest in Lee have opted for other players e.g. Memphis, Detroit, Toronto, and the player himself is simply not worth $8,000,000 per for 4 years. All we have to do is look at Ron Artest settling for the MLE, Rasheed Wallace inking a two year pact with Boston, Detroit's signing of a same tier player as Lee for $7,000,000, Trevor Ariza vying for an MLE signing, as well as other players inking much smaller pacts than expected. I read an onlne source that pinpointed David Lee probably resigning a deal with NY for a little more than $6,000,000 per year. I think Lee will resign for a figure closer to that range, rather than the $8-$10 million Berman and Isola have been singing about for weeks. I distinctly recall that when the Knicks signed Kurt Thomas to an extension back in the day, he received that type of figure, and that was when the economy was good. Bartlestein is doing the right thing for his client, even if 75% of what he is saying is BS. Any decent player agent is going to try and get the most money possible for his client. That said, Portland is probably still reeling from the Hedu Turkoglu fiasco and has yet to even regroup in order to throw an offer sheet at David or Bartlestein yet. Honestly, I would consider signing and trading David Lee straight up for Andre Miller, who is one of the best PGs in the NBA. If Portland wants Lee, they would have to exhaust all of their remaining cap room to even have a chance at our PF. Donnie is playing this FA game very well thus far. No way does Lee walk away from NY without a counter-offer or a sign and trade for a valuable player or a high draft pick. Lest we forget, Walsh is NOT going to take back any contract which would jeopardize 2010's summer of love. The Raptors, IMHO, overpaid for Hedu Turkoglu, but this was their sole opportunity in trying to keep Chris Bosh happy, although I do not think Bosh will extend his deal with Toronto over this addition. The Raptors had to renounce all of their rights to several key players, including Shawn Marion, in order to come up with the $53,000,000/5 year deal, and IMHO, despite Turk's play in the off season, he is already 30 years old. Hedu is a terrific player who played on an NBA title contender last season. He certainly reaped the benefits of this, and Toronto really broke the bank to get him. However, I think the Raptors were desperate and overpaid, but they were the only team in the NBA to do this. After all, no player in history has ever gone to Canada voluntarily to play in the NBA, thus subjecting their earnings to massive taxes. |
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Post by greatgates on Jul 7, 2009 15:06:04 GMT -5
With the current economic status and the fact that the NBA borrowed 200 million to help assist some franchises this past February, the writing has clearly been on the wall for all free agents that the paydays will not be what they once were. With David Lee's situation, I knew this would be the case. I firmly believe that no other team will sign him to an offer sheet at 10 per. Portland can offer 9 per and even they are hesitant. The economy has indeed provided Donnie a bargaining chip. To be honest, I dont even know if I believe the 4 years/32 million rumor. That didnt come from an official source within the Knicks right? I can never see Donnie letting that information out until its official, if even then. Will... The Knicks never even tendered an offer to Jason Kidd, despite Mark Berman's misinformation that NY offered a three year MLE to him. The NY Post as well as The NY Daily News' Frank Isola, reported that Walsh would go up to the 4 year, $32,000,000 deal in order to retain David Lee. The Knicks never disclosed any information regarding the General, IMO. The organization's policy on not discussing player salaries is obviously still in place and I agree with you that Donnie never said anything about Lee, based on The NY Times report on Jason Kidd never even talking to Donnie Walsh regarding any type of contract or money during their "3 hour tour". I think FA ex-Bucks Charlie Villanueva set the bar for how high a team with the most cap room in the NBA would go for a scoring, promising, young PF. Detroit got Charlie for little more than the MLE, 5 years/$35,000,000. There is no way in hell David Lee will see $9,000,000 from Portland plus, as we both noted, the Blazers are extremely wary of even making an offer, knowing that NY can and would force either a sign and trade, simply resign David after a 10 day waiting period which would allow other FAs to simply slip on by--notably Andre Miller who the Trailblazers are actively chasing, and the most important variable of Lee wanting to remain in NY. Even Mark Bartlestein stated that New York is David Lee's preference. Lee is also a base year compensation player, which virtually makes it impossible for Portland to go after David unless a third team is involved. This economy is the worst one for an NBA free agent, many teams e.g. Oklahoma, would rather wait until next year to go after a better FA class, teams with cap room e.g. Detroit, already used their monies and are no longer threats for 2010-11 FAs let alone stealing David Lee from NY this year, teams that did have interest in Lee have opted for other players e.g. Memphis, Detroit, Toronto, and the player himself is simply not worth $8,000,000 per for 4 years. All we have to do is look at Ron Artest settling for the MLE, Rasheed Wallace inking a two year pact with Boston, Detroit's signing of a same tier player as Lee for $7,000,000, Trevor Ariza vying for an MLE signing, as well as other players inking much smaller pacts than expected. I read an onlne source that pinpointed David Lee probably resigning a deal with NY for a little more than $6,000,000 per year. I think Lee will resign for a figure closer to that range, rather than the $8-$10 million Berman and Isola have been singing about for weeks. I distinctly recall that when the Knicks signed Kurt Thomas to an extension back in the day, he received that type of figure, and that was when the economy was good. Bartlestein is doing the right thing for his client, even if 75% of what he is saying is BS. Any decent player agent is going to try and get the most money possible for his client. That said, Portland is probably still reeling from the Hedu Turkoglu fiasco and has yet to even regroup in order to throw an offer sheet at David or Bartlestein yet. Honestly, I would consider signing and trading David Lee straight up for Andre Miller, who is one of the best PGs in the NBA. If Portland wants Lee, they would have to exhaust all of their remaining cap room to even have a chance at our PF. Donnie is playing this FA game very well thus far. No way does Lee walk away from NY without a counter-offer or a sign and trade for a valuable player or a high draft pick. Lest we forget, Walsh is NOT going to take back any contract which would jeopardize 2010's summer of love. The Raptors, IMHO, overpaid for Hedu Turkoglu, but this was their sole opportunity in trying to keep Chris Bosh happy, although I do not think Bosh will extend his deal with Toronto over this addition. The Raptors had to renounce all of their rights to several key players, including Shawn Marion, in order to come up with the $53,000,000/5 year deal, and IMHO, despite Turk's play in the off season, he is already 30 years old. Hedu is a terrific player who played on an NBA title contender last season. He certainly reaped the benefits of this, and Toronto really broke the bank to get him. However, I think the Raptors were desperate and overpaid, but they were the only team in the NBA to do this. After all, no player in history has ever gone to Canada voluntarily to play in the NBA, thus subjecting their earnings to massive taxes. |
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Post by kgooglog on Jul 8, 2009 7:02:02 GMT -5
GG...
Thank you fior your kind words, comrade. Interestingly, I did read what you just said regarding the Knicks exacting revenge by offering one of the two players an huge deal (I believe it was Roy) simply to still him away from the Trailblazers.
One other negative point about David Lee going to Portland was also mentioned. He would not be starting, but coming off the bench to spell Aldredge. No team on the planet would ante up $8,000,000 for a back-up PF, even one as good as David Lee is and will be.
We are in the driver's seat with both Lee and Nate Robinson. If Nate does sign the Knicks qualifying offer of $2.9 million this year, he would also be easier to package in a sign and trade, for he would be an unrestricted FA after 2009-2010, and a team looking for a near perfect 6th man who provides instant offense, perhaps the contending teams rumored to be interested in Nate e.g. Cleveland, Lakers, Orlando, may trade a 2010 first round pick to NY for Robinson. Plus, as silly as it sounds, Toney Douglas' rookie year may be enhanced due to playing with or subbing for Nate. Nate, IMHO, will be playing his best basketball of his life this season if he opts to accept the Knicks QO.
To think that NY may be able to retain these two players at reasonable deals (Signing Lee to a 5 year, $7,000,000 deal possibly and keeping Nate under $3,000,000, albeit for 1 season), possibly add Grant Hill, the extremely valuable Darko, the intriguing Jordan Hill, and the so-called stud of the late first round draft, Toney Douglas, will make, IMHO, New York a better team and possibly a post-season threat in the first round. Lest I not to forget the diamond in the rough, Saer Sene, who I believe will make the team and be our eventual shotblocking, rebounding pivot. We will have a healthy Gallo, and the combination of Sene, Darko, and Gallo on the front-line can permit D'Antoni to go very large at times, and to radically change the Knicks style of small-ball which utterly killed us last year.
If all falls into place, Donnie Walsh can focus on ridding the Knicks of Fat Ass and Jared Jeffries, perhaps with the Mobley contract. Times are hard for many NBA teams, and Cuttino's 80% insured contract alone is worthy of a top 7 draft pick, perhaps even higher.
I suppose you can tell I am juiced up for the season, even if nothing but the drafting of Hill, Douglass and the Q-Tip-Darko trade were "official".
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jul 8, 2009 7:29:43 GMT -5
when does summer league start?
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Jul 9, 2009 12:02:39 GMT -5
July 10-19
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