D Lee

[mercury]

The Grizz have just traded for our old friend ZBO. The Clips recieve our other old freind QRICH in return. This takes the Grizz out of the picture concerning Lee. Next is the Pistons who have agreed to terms with Gordon and Villanueva.Then the Thunder is rumored to be intrested in Millsap. The only team left is the Blazers, and they are rumored to be after Turkgolu and Andre Miller. It seems like Lee will have to take the 32 million over 4 years. This deal is not bad. He gets to stay in New York and can make tons of money in advertising. He's a young good looking white guy. That sells,especially in the NBA.

[kgooglog]

Jul 1, 2009 20:49:56 GMT -5 mercury said:

The Grizz have just traded for our old friend ZBO. The Clips recieve our other old freind QRICH in return. This takes the Grizz out of the picture concerning Lee. Next is the Pistons who have agreed to terms with Gordon and Villanueva.Then the Thunder is rumored to be intrested in Millsap. The only team left is the Blazers, and they are rumored to be after Turkgolu and Andre Miller. It seems like Lee will have to take the 32 million over 4 years. This deal is not bad. He gets to stay in New York and can make tons of money in advertising. He's a young good looking white guy. That sells,especially in the NBA.

I am shocked that the Grizzlies did this deal, although it is an obvious cap-clearing move. I think the Charlie V rumors of a Pistons 4 year, $35 million dollar FA offer will set the bar for other FA signings concerning PFs. David Lee is worth money but I wonder if Donnie Walsh will whittle down the price, perhaps to $7,000,000 and add a year to the contract.

I'm not into screwing good players and nice guys out of money but if we can ink Lee to a little less than $8 million per year, all the better for management who can try to get rid of Curry, Jeffries, and Nate to increase our flexibility...

Cap-space is a priority and David is not a scoring PF like the way CB4 is. With the anticipated additions in 2010, Lee will be, at best a fourth option on scoring, which may not be a bad thing.

[daglazer]

Do not forget the possibility of a sign and trade. A team does not need cap room for that, just tradeable assets.

At this point, I would play hardball with Lee and offer him less.

[kgooglog]

Jul 1, 2009 22:58:49 GMT -5 daglazer said:

Do not forget the possibility of a sign and trade. A team does not need cap room for that, just tradeable assets.

At this point, I would play hardball with Lee and offer him less.

DA...

I completely agree and according to all the NY Papers, Donnie Walsh is talking $7,000,000-$8,000,000, although my feeling is that the FA market for PFs was drastically affected by the signing of former Bucks' PF Charlie Villaneuva for much less money than David Lee's agent is seeking for his client. Zach Randolf being traded for Q-Rich is yet another fly in the ointment, insofar as options for Lee.

I think we should ink Lee for $7,000,000 per. This is his market value, and this economy will make it a hell of a lot easier for NY to give Dave his payday...

Also, even if we do sign him, like you said, we can do a sign and trade, although I do not want a multi-year deal coming back in return, even if it is an all-star player on the decline, which always was a Knick woe. I'd prefer to keep Lee, providing we can definitely trade Jeffries/Nate/ or Curry. I like Lee's tenacity, rebounding, and attitude. I am not in love with his shot, he blows free throws at key moments, and is not the best defensive player in the NBA. That said, Lee is a workhorse, and he would be a terrific part of a LeBron/Bosh line-up.

I am unsure as to the latest rumors of the Knicks reaching out to Grant Hill, who would also be a "name" player but he is running on fumes at 36. The reported offer would be the veteran bi-annual exception which is a little over a million dollars, but I cannot see Grant Hill playing for a rebuilding team when just about every current title contender wants him.

[daglazer]

Ken, I have a hard time believing that Grant Hill would play for us at this point in his career, although he was a Knicks fan as a kid because he idolized Patrick Ewing. He could easily go to the Lakers to replace Ariza and seek a ring, or to the Cavs for the same money. He would be a great fit for the Spurs and the Hornets. There are just too many contenders that would love to have a talented and selfless player who can be effective on both offense and defense. Grant just needs to be the 3rd or 4th option and cannot play too many minutes.

Of course, I would love it if Grant came here. He would immediately be our best player and I would finally get to root for one of my favorite Dukies on a daily basis.

Personally, I hope that we trade Lee. How about we package Lee and Curry to Houston for McGrady? I see no reason why Jordan Hill cannot be as good as Lee almost immediately. Let's let Hill play right away and accelerate his development.

[dk7th]

i would try to package lee if it meant getting rid of curry. i have no faith that curry even if he loses 50 pounds will be able it keep it off. so long as d'antoni is coaching new york what use is there for a player like curry anyway? we are rebuilding. walsh must find a way to package curry, and lee is the only real chip new york has to do so. lee is not a player you hold onto in a rebuilding process. he is more of a valuable 6th or 7th man on a contender. of course the obstacle remains what contender would be willing to take curry on since lee would be coveted. that's a real problem. somebody might bite on a lee/jeffries package though.

[ReneNYG1]

I love Grant Hill and wanted him here for years and him and DAnt are very vclose,I really think we are putting together a real good team,sure Kid is a long shot but if we sign Lee to a reasonable contract 8per you giuys are nuts thinking we get him cheaper his agent is asking for 12per and quite frankly Lee is one of the most promising young players in the league,if we get him for 8 per for six years I'm happy,Grant Hill is the type of player we need here,he's a coaches players he can help us gainleadership and would add the veteran leadership we lack which Q brough and is now gone,we need Grant Hill here,he's not done he has had very little wear on him through the years being injured almost evry year till recently,I think he wouls be awesome here,I love the Darko trade too.I changed my mind on Kid at first I hated him for years because he hit his wife and I had no respect for that,but if he's on the Knicks and plays like he did last year.my feelings like you guys that know me can change and the bitch deseved to get bitch slapped w,what a change huh,lol.I think with Zebo trade it really limits Lee options,I hope we sign him,if you look at Nate numbers he deserves better respect from us and a decent contract,N8 is a good kid and is improving each year and has tons of talent to give up on him now IMO is a big mistake,let's keep out talent and get rid of the crap contracts in Lee and Jeffries,if we do have to move N* we better get a numb er one out of the deal but if it's to a contender then it would be a low one which is not worth it,keeping N* is a smart move,most of us are focussing on his faults but he has alot more pluses.

[kgooglog]

DA, DK, and Rene:

I would love to have Grant Hill on our team, but he is being sought after by contenders. I think, howevr, it is a good move for Walsh to be pursuing guys like Kidd and Grant, because it adds instant credibility to our franchise. I don't think Grant will accept a vet's minimum, unless J-Kidd's 3 hour meeting with Donnie Walsh went extremely well.

DA, I think a Lee/Curry deal would be accepted by the Rockets, but I think Houston would bite harder on the Curry/Mobley proposal, since T-Mac has such a huge salary, and Mobley's expiring and insured contract may make the Rockets think real hard, in terms of a financial savings of nearly $10,000,000 due to the insurance issue. Yao may not play for a long time and Blob may be able to plug the gap in the middle. The Rockets NEED a pivot and one who can hopefully score. Nevertheless, I am open to any sign and trade proposals for David Lee, as I completely agree with you that Jordan Hill will be a huge asset to NY right now. Plus, you make an excellent point about accelerating Hill's development.

Dk: I have no faith at all in Eddy Curry, period. Now, he is involved in yet another fiasco with his Illinois home foreclosing, and he made news today in that he will be launching a lawsuit against someone he thinks took money from him. I don't even care anymore about Curry's myriad of distractions. Maybe, and I hope that Houston's need for a pivot will encourage them to consider a Curry/Mobley deal for T-Mac. I do not think Houston wants to pay both Curry and Lee, which is why I keep harping on the Mobley contract, which is an extremely valuable chip we do have. That said, I would package Lee with Curry for T-Mac, for cap-space in my priority and the Knicks made a great choice in drafting Hill and Toney Douglas, acquiring Darko for a useless, declining Q-Tip, and keeping my man Saer Sene for summer camp Vegas games. I truly believe that a Darko/Sene combination at the pivot would be far better than what we have had in the past. Both these guys are good shotblockers and as DA posted Darko's stats, they do speak to the kid's ability to board, too. Saer Sene, IMHO, may be a special defensive center as he appears almost ferocious in his pursuit of the ball and he has an 8 foot wingspan, to boot.

Rene: I think David Lee's agent is nuts. Charlie Villaneuva signed for $35 million over 4 years or something like that. I think the General, and this is also confirmed by a few NY papers, will get $7,000,000 or a little more from Walsh, and that is the market value in a depressed economy. I said this a few months ago that Kurt Thomas got a nice, but reasonable contract from NY back in the day, and while I think Lee is a far better player than Kurt was, the economy will dictate what Lee gets. $8,000,000 or $7,000,000? I am only concerned about cap-room, and if we can dump Fat Ass and Jeffries, I would give Lee $10,000,000 a year. In 2010, the best free agents in the world are available to us, and I know Walsh is not going to screw the cap this year, but if we can get J-Kidd, and Rene, I feel the same way about any dude that hits a woman, we do gain a HOF PG and, perhaps more importantly, LeBron and Bosh/Wade are in NY next summer without a hitch.

Rene, what I read is that Nate is willing to accept the Knicks qualifying offer, which won't impact our cap for 2009-2010, but then he will be unrestricted in 2010-2011. Donnoe knows that Nate is a crowd favorite in NY but he won't have that same impact in Portland, where there is genuine interest for Robinson, according to rumors. I agree that we must get a 2010 first round pick for N8....

[dk7th]

Jul 2, 2009 9:59:26 GMT -5 ReneNYG1 said:

I love Grant Hill and wanted him here for years and him and DAnt are very vclose,I really think we are putting together a real good team,sure Kid is a long shot but if we sign Lee to a reasonable contract 8per you giuys are nuts thinking we get him cheaper his agent is asking for 12per and quite frankly Lee is one of the most promising young players in the league,if we get him for 8 per for six years I'm happy,Grant Hill is the type of player we need here,he's a coaches players he can help us gainleadership and would add the veteran leadership we lack which Q brough and is now gone,we need Grant Hill here,he's not done he has had very little wear on him through the years being injured almost evry year till recently,I think he wouls be awesome here,I love the Darko trade too.I changed my mind on Kid at first I hated him for years because he hit his wife and I had no respect for that,but if he's on the Knicks and plays like he did last year.my feelings like you guys that know me can change and the bitch deseved to get bitch slapped w,what a change huh,lol.I think with Zebo trade it really limits Lee options,I hope we sign him,if you look at Nate numbers he deserves better respect from us and a decent contract,N8 is a good kid and is improving each year and has tons of talent to give up on him now IMO is a big mistake,let's keep out talent and get rid of the crap contracts in Lee and Jeffries,if we do have to move N* we better get a numb er one out of the deal but if it's to a contender then it would be a low one which is not worth it,keeping N* is a smart move,most of us are focussing on his faults but he has alot more pluses.

i disagree. nate robinson is a zero sum player. he gives up as much as he contributes, be it from taking away from the flow of the offense or not being able to stay in front of his man on defense and close him out at 5'7". i have the same issue with harrington. lee gives you a little bit more because he has learned how to pass as soon as he draws a second defender, he finishes with either hand around the rim, and if he can add another two feet of range on his shot he'll be able to stretch defenses. where he is an utter liability of course is on defense, but he is actually no worse than either robinson and harrington but that is still an issue and is why he should not be offered more than 7 million. i find the rebounding stats misleading-- unless we are talking about offensive rebounds. the reason why defensive rebounds are overvalued is because they very rarely are rebounds earned in traffic, since most teams decide to fall back once they lose the possession than contest a rebound and follow the shot of their teammate. it's why i was never impressed with zach randolph-- except for all his crappy teamwork he had a nose for an offensive rebound and putback, and he did it better than david lee.

i am hoping these two rookies make an impression so that lee becomes more expendable and we can package jeffries off, and that the point guard they got with the 29th pick can give quality minutes since duhon can't play more than 32 minutes a game for the season before breaking down like he did last season.

[irish2u2]

Obviously the Clippers were desperate to dump ZBoe. The Grizzlies got him for Big Lot prices. ; ) It puts a fly in the ointment for Lee and his agent but it is interesting that the Raptors may be interested in Lee. Maybe that is a prelude to trading for Bosh? In the back of my head is always the reports of Bosh and LeBron wanting to play together. There was een something recent about that on one of the basketball sites....

Some other quick thoughts as I am borrowing someone's wireless signal. ; )

I do think DK is right that Nate is a zero sum player mainly because of his maturity and his size. Al Harrington can be a zero sum player but he has the right NBA size and I don't believe his defense is as bad as it is made out to be. It's not good mind you but it also isn't abysmal either. Get what we can for Nate or just let him go.

I hope we either can trade David for Bosh or he signs a nod and a wink deal with Walsh for 2 years at less than his current market value. Once the pieces are in place, meaning LeBron is on board, then max the guy out. He may not be an elite player but he's popular, he produces and his work ethic is second to none.

I am going to be SOOOOOOOO fat when I get home. ; )

[mercury]

I have come up with a trade scenario for D Lee. The Knicks send Lee, Chandler, and Mobley to the Raptors for Bosh, and Patrick Obryant. Obryant has a team option for this season. I used the real gm trade checker for this trade. However, since Lee dosent have a new contract I put Darkos salary in, which is 7.5 million. I assume this is where Lee's contract will start. This trade is great for the Knicks. The raptors can save 7 million with the Mobley contract. They get chandler, and can pair him with DeRozan for an exciting young tandem on the wings. Lastly they recieve Lee who will become a fan favorite.

[kgooglog]

The latest I heard is that Walsh shut down any sign and trade deals for Lee with the Raptors because of Toronto's exclusion of Chris Bosh in this deal. I think I would ante up Wilson, Lee and Mobley's deal for CB4 and this Obryant fellow and then just waive him.

This is why I like the way Walsh operates. He put the brakes on as soon as the Raptors refused to discuss CB4 in a deal. Toronto must be delusional to not do a sign and trade with NY, as Bosh wants out of there so bad that he has gone public with his desire.

Who on the Raptors' roster would we want besides Bosh? Walsh will just sign him as an unrestricted FA next season and we can probably keep David Lee...

BTW, Merc, I think that Darko's salary numbers will be the most David Lee will get from any team including the Knicks, and that the Raptors history of stupidity continues...although Lee may not want to go there. Who the hell would? That said, Toronto apparently wants to let Bosh walk away for nothing in return. At least, the Raptors should try to get two players of value, including Wilson Chandler, who may be the bargain of the century. I think that is more than a fair deal for Chris Bosh...

[irish2u2]

I am watching the David Lee melodrama unfold and the one amazing component is all the information, rather disinformation, out there.

On one hand Lee's agent Mark Bartlestein claims a "dozen teams" are interested in Lee primarily the Portland Trailblazers. He cites past deals of guys like Carlos Boozer, Emaka Okafor and Elton Brand all signed big deals after averaging double doubles.

Of course all are better players than David Lee, all were signed when the financial state of the NBA and the country was much better and in a lot of cases they were signed by the teams that drafted them as the biggest star on the team. Lee may be the biggest star on the Knicks but that is more a statement of the sorry state of affairs on the Knicks than any indication of his worth on the free market.

Now the Blazers may attempt to front load a Lee contract making it harder for the Knicks to match the offer and still free room for the 2010 Summer of Free Agent Nirvana but the Blazers would seriously have to overpay for Lee and the Knicks could still match and trade him later.

IMHO it sounds like Mark Barrtlestein is trying to create a market that really doesn't exist. If Ron Artest is worth a Mid Level Exception, and he's a better offensive and defensive player than Lee, the market seems to be settling for less than what we might normally see. Hedo Turkuglu is due to make maybe 10 mil a year but he comes off a year where he was the leading scorer on the NBA FInalists Orlando Magic and he's a decent defensive player who can board along with create his own scoring opportunities. It should also be noted Lee plays for Mike D'Antoni and we all know that inflates player stats.

I have to be honest and say I find all this media conjecture and hyperbole fascinating. The Knicks are still in the driver's seat here. The market is depressed, Lee is still not a star player and Donnie Walsh is a sly, experienced executive who knows what Bartlestein is trying to do. I would not be shocked if Lee stays with the Knicks. I would not be shocked if Lee gets traded in a sign and trade scenario. I would be utterly shocked if the Knicks let Lee go for nothing.

[kgooglog]

Excellent post, Bill.

Hedo Turkuglu's decision to go to Toronto over Portland was reportedly due to the international flavor of the city and his wife's desire to be there rather than in Portland. Hedo must be the first and only player in NBA history who actually chose to play for the Raptors, without threatening to retire. I doubt David Lee would have ever agreed to a sign and trade to Toronto as rumored before Turkuglu signed, and now Portland is left reeling.

Lee is also a base year compensation player which will make any sign and trade very difficult. I completely agree that Donnie Walsh and New York are in the driver's seat with Lee, and I read early this morning that David and Bartlestein may only find offers in the $6,000,000 range for his services. The Artest signing is, in many ways, very damaging to the General's anticipated worth, and other, better players are finding that the mid-level exception is the only money they will get.

Bartlestein is bandstanding his client and like P.T. Barnum, is putting on the greatest show on Earth. As much as you and I love David Lee, the player is not a $10,000,000 per year investment. Portland has only $8,000,000 in cap room, according to the NY Times, and Walsh will probably match that number as he has previously stated. I think the NY media with the exception of the Times, is making smoke where there is very little chance of a fire. The Knicks do not want any contracts coming back for Lee...unless it is Chris Bosh's.

[irish2u2]

Ken

I think the Knicks will take back a contract for Lee that extends into 2010 if it is a guy they think can fit the team. Travis Outlaw is an athletic small forward the likes of Marion so he is a fit though he is a player always on the "cusp" of something better than he has shown.

I like the way Walsh is playing it which is what he said from the beginning. He is waiting for the market to set a price for David Lee and not overreacting ala Alan Houston.