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Post by kgooglog on Apr 10, 2009 6:06:29 GMT -5
In scanning the NY papers, including NY Newsday, which is owned by Dolan (Newsday always includes this disclaimer), it appears as if Mike D'Antoni wants to now keep David Lee, along with Wilson Chandler and Danillo Galinari. Donnie Walsh was quoted as saying words to the effect that a good player is also a player who can be retained for the right price. What does this mean for NY? One of the Knick beat writers (not Hahn or Berman) mentioned that Nate Robinson's "deteriorating" play of late, is seriously damaging his restricted free agency price. Conversely, David Lee has played well in these same games, and Mike D seems to love the General. My problem, here, is that Lee has been rumored to be seeking $10,000,000 a year. This wouldn't concern me as much if Eddy Curry wasn't sucking NY's cap-space dry or if Jared Jeffries was able to be traded for an expiring contract in 2010. I am of the belief that N8 will be packaged, perhaps with Jeffries, for what may be another useless player e.g. Kenny Thomas, in order to keep David Lee under contract. Nate seems like a completely different player now, nearly invisible, and his minutes seem to have decreased, although I cannot verify that without looking at a box score. What I see is awful shot selection, porous defense, and a player who has "shut down" for the rest of the season. It is my speculation that Robinson may know his fate or is grossly effected by the notion that he may be gone. Walsh and D'Antoni seem to be serious about rebuilding the team with hard-working, as well as effective players. They have already signed two guys in Sims and Sene who may only be 10 day players, but players who address a glaring need and players who will definitely be looked at during the summer. These are also two guys who will not be signed to $10,000,000 deals, either. I love 'Lil Nate, but is he the type of player the Knicks want to keep, even at a reduced rate, meaning $7,000,000 a year? I am unsure about Robinson's status, and I am not the only one who is. I think the franchise has already made its decision on David Lee and the issue is just a matter of signing the contract. In the same vein, I think the franchise will jettison Robinson for either a draft pick this year or next year, or package N8 with Blue Whale or the much improved Jared Jeffries for cap relief. As much as I know it will initially hurt, I think Nate should be traded, not David Lee. Lee may become third or fourth fiddle by 2010, but that is okay, and David will accept that "Oakley-like" role, without complaint. IMHO, Nate is not that type of player who can or will acquiesce to the "elite" player(s) who will be eventually here in 2010. BTW, Chris Bosh wears #4 as well, which is an ominous sign regarding Deto-Nate's fate. Finally, a belated hello to my esteemed colleague, GreatGates, who finally finished law school and joined the firm.  |
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Post by whensly on Apr 10, 2009 8:34:58 GMT -5
from what I hear D Ant has no love of coaching Nate or Al. (his two scorers).
let's see if they are around next year and where.
i doubt here
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Post by jbaer10314 on Apr 10, 2009 8:41:52 GMT -5
<< In scanning the NY papers, including NY Newsday, which is owned by Dolan (Newsday always includes this disclaimer), it appears as if Mike D'Antoni wants to now keep David Lee, along with Wilson Chandler and Danillo Galinari. Donnie Walsh was quoted as saying words to the effect that a good player is also a player who can be retained for the right price. What does this mean for NY?
One of the Knick beat writers (not Hahn or Berman) mentioned that Nate Robinson's "deteriorating" play of late, is seriously damaging his restricted free agency price. Conversely, David Lee has played well in these same games, and Mike D seems to love the General. My problem, here, is that Lee has been rumored to be seeking $10,000,000 a year. This wouldn't concern me as much if Eddy Curry wasn't sucking NY's cap-space dry or if Jared Jeffries was able to be traded for an expiring contract in 2010.
I am of the belief that N8 will be packaged, perhaps with Jeffries, for what may be another useless player e.g. Kenny Thomas, in order to keep David Lee under contract. Nate seems like a completely different player now, nearly invisible, and his minutes seem to have decreased, although I cannot verify that without looking at a box score. What I see is awful shot selection, porous defense, and a player who has "shut down" for the rest of the season. It is my speculation that Robinson may know his fate or is grossly effected by the notion that he may be gone.
Walsh and D'Antoni seem to be serious about rebuilding the team with hard-working, as well as effective players. They have already signed two guys in Sims and Sene who may only be 10 day players, but players who address a glaring need and players who will definitely be looked at during the summer. These are also two guys who will not be signed to $10,000,000 deals, either.
I love 'Lil Nate, but is he the type of player the Knicks want to keep, even at a reduced rate, meaning $7,000,000 a year? I am unsure about Robinson's status, and I am not the only one who is. I think the franchise has already made its decision on David Lee and the issue is just a matter of signing the contract.
In the same vein, I think the franchise will jettison Robinson for either a draft pick this year or next year, or package N8 with Blue Whale or the much improved Jared Jeffries for cap relief.
As much as I know it will initially hurt, I think Nate should be traded, not David Lee. Lee may become third or fourth fiddle by 2010, but that is okay, and David will accept that "Oakley-like" role, without complaint. IMHO, Nate is not that type of player who can or will acquiesce to the "elite" player(s) who will be eventually here in 2010.
BTW, Chris Bosh wears #4 as well, which is an ominous sign regarding Deto-Nate's fate.
Finally, a belated hello to my esteemed colleague, GreatGates, who finally finished law school and joined the firm. >>
Being the loyal sort, I'm not so quick to send Nate packing. Simplistic as it sounds, I wonder if he;s playing poorly now because the team was knicked out of playoff contention. I don't know he'll play this poorly next season; he strikes me as the sort who WANTS to play to his potential and will work hard to do so. That said, if he goes, well, so be it.
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Post by kgooglog on Apr 10, 2009 9:09:25 GMT -5
from what I hear D Ant has no love of coaching Nate or Al. (his two scorers). let's see if they are around next year and where. i doubt here I've heard this as well, Mouse. Isn't ironic that an offensive-minded coach like Mike D, may actually lose both Harrington and Nate and be okay with it? This offseason may make 2010 look like a siesta. One thing we all know. The Knicks are in an extremely unique position, now. There are expiring contracts which financially strapped teams may want. We have the lotto, which is somewhat pathetic, yet exciting, and the decisions on David Lee and Nate Robinson. We have these new young shot-blockers in Sene and Sims, who hopefully will be played tonight. Sims seems to be energized, already... |
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Post by kgooglog on Apr 10, 2009 9:16:49 GMT -5
<< Being the loyal sort, I'm not so quick to send Nate packing. Simplistic as it sounds, I wonder if he;s playing poorly now because the team was knicked out of playoff contention. I don't know he'll play this poorly next season; he strikes me as the sort who WANTS to play to his potential and will work hard to do so. That said, if he goes, well, so be it. Jeff... I think you make a terrific point about Nate being a hard-worker and he may be very down about the status of the team. What fuels Nate is competition, IMHO, and playing out this stretch of games, must be difficult for any player, particularly the one who wears his emotions on his sleeve, so to speak. Sadly, the facts seem to be that Donnie Walsh's plans for the team and cap-issues probably will result in one of the two, Lee or Robinson, playing elsewhere next season. I wish both could stay, to be honest. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Apr 10, 2009 11:45:18 GMT -5
Mike D'Antoni likes smart, hard playing guys. Lee fills both criteria while Nate and Al sometimes do not. It may be as simple as the Knick braintrust is building towards a specific future i.e. one with Bosh and LeBron. I also see us positioning ourselves with the Jason Kidd rumors from today's Alan Hahn column in Newsday. Why would we want an aging (36 years old) Kidd? I think the Knicks are tipping their hand for the future and even the draft this year.
It makes sense. The Knicks sign Kidd for the Mid Level Exception. Kidd still has appeal with a lot of NBA players who would just love to play with him. Duhon's deal expires in 2010 and the Knicks should be in position to grab a PG in the draft. Kidd mentors the rookie for a few years and guys like LeBron and maybe Bosh would love to play with a guy who is going to find them every time they get open. A guy like Kidd even makes possible a resurrection of Curry provided he gets in shape.
Nate's spotty play of late, especially against Chicago, has been noticeable but NBA players are graded on the season and not so much a particular run of games unless it's a long run. Signing Kidd, drafting a PG, making Wilson Chandler a SG all point to Nate being squeezed out. As Ken points out it would not be terribly difficult to package a talent like Nate with Jared Jefferies to get an expiring contract and also create another MLE hole in the cap that Kidd fills.
BTW, I still think Lee is expendable if Walsh is serious about making a run for Bosh this summer. If we somehow trade for Bosh and sign Kidd I love our chances of getting LeBron James and then I love our chances of being a power again in the NBA. On a smaller scale the signing of Sims and Sene also shows me that Walsh is looking for a cheap, young defensive center who still has upside and grow with the needs of this team.
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Post by will1682 on Apr 10, 2009 20:32:07 GMT -5
I must agree as well that the signs are pointing more towards a Nate departure this summer rather than David Lee. When Nate is on fire during a game, he is likely the best 6th man in the league for the night. However, its simply not consistent and mix that with the immaturity he seems to display at times, the decision is a no brainer for Knicks brass.
As for Lee, I think its been well speculated all along that he would command 10 anually. The question is does Donnie Walsh meet that command up front or let Lee talk with other teams. With the unstable economics currently, the best case scenerio would be for Lee to speak with other teams and find that nobody is willing to offer that sort of money and we could possibly sign him at a reduced price. Worst case scenerio, a team offers him more than 10 anually and if we matched it would further complicate 2010. I dont know how accurate it is, but here is a list of teams that will have cap room this summer:
Memphis
Detroit
Oklahoma City
Portland
Toronto
Atlanta
Minnesota
Sacramento
I could for sure see some being interested in our restricted FA's, especially the young contending teams such as Atlanta and Portland. All I know, and it has been stated before, if we lose one of these guys we have to come out of it with an advantage, such as packaging Curry or Jeffries to further compensate our 2010 cap.
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Post by irish2u2 on Apr 10, 2009 22:00:38 GMT -5
Some great points Will especially about the economy maybe dictating a lower pay scale for Lee. The fly in the ointment is Detroit. They have 15 million to spend and they will spend it. Will they target Lee? They might. He is a fit for their system in that he doesn't need the ball to be good and Detroit has defenders who can insulate Lee's one flaw.
It should be a very interesting summer. ; )
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Post by will1682 on Apr 10, 2009 23:33:37 GMT -5
Some great points Will especially about the economy maybe dictating a lower pay scale for Lee. The fly in the ointment is Detroit. They have 15 million to spend and they will spend it. Will they target Lee? They might. He is a fit for their system in that he doesn't need the ball to be good and Detroit has defenders who can insulate Lee's one flaw. It should be a very interesting summer. ; ) Great point about Detroit Bill. After I posted earlier I looked back at that list and did think twice about the Pistons. I do believe Lee would be right up Dumars alley. The teams he constructed were never of selfish players (well, until the A.I. deal this season). The formula has always been team play and he was fortunate to obtain players that were the right mesh to win. And with Lee being an unselfish, consistent 10-10 guy every night, he is likely at or near the top of Joe's list. However, will Joe be willing to spend 10 per season? Dont forget, this was the man who stood firm and let Ben Wallace walk. Of course looking back now it was the right move, as Wallace has only went downhill since leaving Detroit. But at the time Wallace was coming off his fourth DPOY award and he had won all with the Pistons. |
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Post by kgooglog on Apr 13, 2009 6:52:32 GMT -5
Bill and Will...
One of my favorite topics, free agency, has made me a bit misty-eyed this morning, particularly after the Knicks/Heat game last evening. Wade hits 55 points, and Mike D was having a friendly chat with him on the side-lines, probably asking him about why he couldn't be on tour with our team : )
I am on the fence about David Lee going to a conference contender, and since he is restricted, we can somewhat control who goes where, if we can do a sign and trade. Lee fits into Detroit too well, and what can we get back in return? I want Walsh to work those Toronto phones and get CB4 in here, if at all possible. I think Chris Bosh is an excellent choice to play in the D'Antoni system.
Bosh makes a ton of money this season, but he is a player who is worth signing and trading Lee for, and if we have to give up a draft pick as well, Walsh must do it. Nate Robinson and Jared Jeffries can go to Sacramento for the Kenny Thomas expiring contract, although I would want their pick as well. Sadly, N8 has all, but disappeared from the Knicks planet. His value is lower than a pregnant Volkswagon Beetle now. Thank heavens, Jeffries is playing like a man possessed by...uhm...well, he is playing well enough to perhaps be a vital piece in a sign and trade. Maybe with Nate? Maybe with Harrington for Bosh (My delusional trade which keeps David Lee in NY), Maybe for a draft pick without Nate and Lee (My delusional trade to the Kings sans Kenny Thomas)? Okay, we'll take another Malik Rose for 2009-2010. Plus the Sacramento Kings first rounder.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Deto-Nate is playing so poorly NOW, so he can actually lower his value to another team. Out of all the Knicks, Robinson will do almost anything to stay. This may be a coup de gras for us, if that is the case.
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Post by axios on Apr 13, 2009 7:36:24 GMT -5
I dont see anyone offering Lee 10mil in this economic climate. God Bless him, if so. nate looks to be gone and Im for it, him and AL seem to just stop any ball movement that we saw in the early part of the year.
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Post by kgooglog on Apr 13, 2009 8:17:39 GMT -5
I dont see anyone offering Lee 10mil in this economic climate. God Bless him, if so. nate looks to be gone and Im for it, him and AL seem to just stop any ball movement that we saw in the early part of the year. Lack of ball movement is exactly why my pops and I cannot see Nate Robinson on this Knicks team next year. At 5'7, Nate is neither a 2 or a 1. He is what I call a "luxury" player, sort of like having the 1972 Jaguar XKE 12 cylinder sitting in the garage with a sheet over it, and taking it out once a year for car shows. It is not the 2009 Lexus 4x4 that you drive every day. Unless Robinson is bothered by something, which is the summer of trades and his restricted FA status, he has to be that player who comes in and takes over a game, like he did a few weeks ago. Al Harrington, despite his array of inside moves and outside shooting, is another player who I would not be saddened to see traded. This guy came into the NBA with defensive skills, and I always wanted that Harrington on the Knicks. Now, at age 29 or 30, Al prefers to jack them up from 24 feet away than to play the defense he was known for or drive to the basket, without looking for the open man. Me thinks that angling for a contract extension is predominating Al's head, rather than playing the defense he is capable of or passing the ball to an open mate. Of course, it is hard to argue with his 20 ppg and 7 rpg per game, which is my guesstimate of his stats. Fantasy basketball is fun, but on the court, I want players who do the little things that may not show up every night in the box scores. Look at Jared Jeffries play of late. Even Q-Tip has developed or remembered that he is a wide-load whose body is best used on the post, and he even has shown me that he has some value off the bench. I am singling out these two Knicks only to illustrate that they have elevated their complete games in the past couple of weeks, and neither has anything to lose next year, based on their contracts. Harrington doesn't have to fight for his financial life, either. It just seems to me that he has abandoned playing defense and, worse, like Nate, passing the ball. Now that I got that out of my system, I have to say that I love 'Lil Nate and, as Bill says, we need to look at an entire season when judging a player's value. Krypto-Nate is a crowd draw in most, if not all, NBA arenas. The fact that a 5'7 player possesses such freakish athleticism is the card Donnie Walsh will play, IMHO, when this summer comes. Conversely, Nate is a folk hero in NY, and I have not seen the type of adoration Nate receives since John Starks was shooting 2-18 in the NBA Finals versus Houston. On a daily basis, I speak to my fellow New York Knicks fans about Nate Robinson, and nearly all of them want David Lee to be traded, rather than Robinson. This is why I love this board. All of the members here know what we need for the team, and know that we will feel or experience some pain in the process. While I may blithely agree with my "real-time" comrades that David Lee should be packaged with a Twinkie for a 2010 draft pick, I know that I can be brutally honest with my true colleagues in this oasis. David Lee and Eddy Curry to the Kings for their 2009 First Round pick and Mitch Richmond? Think about Curry's salary coming off the cap in 2009 and 2010? Plus, Mitch still has more game than Larry Hughes...  |
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Post by axios on Apr 13, 2009 10:15:41 GMT -5
wow- larry hughes, where has this guy been?
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Post by kgooglog on Apr 13, 2009 12:55:41 GMT -5
wow- larry hughes, where has this guy been? I think that may have been the exact same question that D'Antoni was laughing his ass off at, when D-Wade said, "This is the easiest 55 I've ever scored against any 5 guys since I picked up a basketball." According to a rumor, Larry was actually texting LeBron's non-existent wife on where she stood in terms of the MVP voting. ;D |
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