Post by irish2u2 on Aug 17, 2022 0:17:58 GMT -5
The Knicks and the Jazz are playing the waiting game in the potential Donovan Mitchell trade and right now neither side is blinking. Danny Ainge wants the moon and the stars and Leon Rose is only willing to pay him the moon and not even a whole moon at that if he can hold out long enough. * I started writing this Monday and this afternoon comes a blurb the talks between New York and Utah have resumed making what follows possibly rubbish. 
It won’t be the first or likely the last time I am totally wrong or my timing is way off but until a deal is made I am still excited for next year with what the Knicks have right now.
Even before all this Mitchell stuff started to heat up there were voices in the Knicks camp ultra high on RJ, IQ, Grimes, Reddish and Toppin. Some tidbits. Grimes is a player Utah is going to like a lot because he’s good and he’s cheap. Reddish, IQ and Obi will be looking for extensions next summer. RJ could be signed to an extension this year. Utah wants good young players but they are more interested in draft choices. If the Knicks are more willing to trade draft capital it will cost them less in players. But still I believe they want Grimes.
So what happens if Ainge stays firm that he wants 4 players and 6 draft picks for Donovan Mitchell? I think we have already seen that Leon Rose won’t panic. I think right now there is a 50-50 chance that maybe the trade doesn’t get done. Ainge got a fortune for Rudy Gobert and once upon a time he fleeced the Nets. He’s looking to make a similar deal and Rose isn’t willing to empty the bank.
Right now I’m sort of torn because while recently I saw the merit of Mitchell it’s not going to crush me if the trade falls through especially if the Knicks have to over pay to get him. I think the Knicks braintrust are excellent judges of talent and I love the young guys on the team. Keeping our draft picks, or at least the best ones, is not a bad strategy moving forward.
I also like some of the stuff you hear on other boards. Obi Toppin or Julius Randle as a small forward? Randle has the handle and he dropped some weight and is looking amazing in posted workout videos and reportedly Obi has been working diligently on his ball handling and with a position less philosophy it could happen. One of the things Obi did during his 10 game run at the end of the season was to adjust the trajectory of his shot.The result was 58% from the field and 45% from beyond the arc for those last 10 games.
Cam Reddish has showed up on a couple of workout videos this summer reminding me what I liked about his game. He’s not explosive but he is athletic and his footwork is impeccable, He has a smooth, nice looking stroke and he’s good with his back to the basket or facing up. Like Obi he has been working on his handle and it shows. He can shoot off the bounce and he’s a smart player using the angles he can get, using his length and skill set and mostly playing within himself.
One of the prevailing thoughts in the hallowed halls of Knicksdom is that IQ has star ability. Lost in Obi’s 42 point game in the season’s finale against Toronto is IQ’s triple double and his 34 points.
I have seen a very valid point made that with all this talk about a trade between the Knicks and Jazz surely a deal will go down. I also recall how the Knicks were a lock to get LeBron and KD.
There are lots and lots of unanswered questions on the Knicks but there are also lots and lots of potential answers. Failing to land Mitchell will be viewed as a massive failure of Leon Rose and the Knicks. I do not share that opinion. I think the Knicks are way better this season, right now, because they fixed their biggest problem at PG. I don’t think Jalen Brunson is anywhere near a superstar player but I do think he can be a huge difference maker on the Knicks because has that leader gene and the skills to make his game work. He can take pressure off Randle, RJ and the rest of the Knicks leaving them to get better looks at the basket without having the burden of creating their own shot opportunities. BUT…I felt the Knicks made strides last summer with Kemba and Fournier. I was kinda wrong.
My viewpoint of the key players on the Knicks now.
STARTERS
PG Jalen Brunson is a great ball handler and shot maker with the ability to lead the team. He excels at the pick and roll and he can score at all three levels while still keeping his teammates involved. I like his intensity, smarts and leadership skills. He’s just 25 years old and while not a good defender he is willing.
SG RJ Barrett is still just 22 years old. Hard to believe. He averaged 20 PPG last season but his other numbers barely moved and his shooting % went down dramatically from the field and beyond the arc. He is still a work in progress but the raw material is there to be a star player and the one thing in his game that dramatically improved was his defense. Plus the kid is a worker. In fact all the Knicks are grinders.
SF Evan Fournier may be the starter. Hopefully not as I am firmly in the Cam Reddish camp or even Obi/Julius. I like Evan and he adds 3 point shooting ability and he can score off the dribble but he’s already at the top of his game while Cam, Obi and even Julius are nowhere near their celling.
PF Julius Randle looks svelte and in great shape in his workout videos. I am thinking the addition of Brunson helps him boost his offensive numbers and efficiency and hopefully the fans will cut him a break. Then again these are Knicks fans so…
C Mitchell Robinson was a huge signing this summer. I think the Knicks realize what I realize and that is Mitch is nowhere near his full ability especially on offense. Last season he gained muscle and it showed in his board work and his defense. I think an expanded offensive game goes a long ways towards making Mitch a true impact player.
BENCH
F Obi Toppin had a huge finish to last season averaging 20 PPG over his last 10 game while shooting phenomenally well from the field and beyond the arc. I think he changed his shot and his approach to make this huge stride and I don’t think it stops. To those who wish to trade Randle let me point out that while Obi is offensively precocious his rebounding and defense still needs work. IMHO he has more impact as a combo forward either off the bench or starting at SF.
F Cam Reddish is to me the biggest question mark on the team. Talent wise he is an athletic, skilled, two way player who can impact the game at both ends of the court. He is a veritable mountain of untapped potential and I’m still reminded I would not have been unhappy to take him over RJ in the draft. Cam is working hard on his game especially ball handling and being more consistent with his shot. He can score at all three levels and he’s a good passer and an above average defender. My best starting lineup has him at SF but he has to earn that which is especially tough with Coach Thibodeau.
C/F Isaiah Hartenstein was a steal signing by the Knicks. He’s a 7 footer with impressive offensive skills who is the epitome of efficiency. He doesn’t shoot much from beyond the arc but he can hit that shot and he can play in the post. You don’t lose a lot when he comes in for Mitch especially since he was one of the best rim protectors in the entire league last season.
G Derrick Rose is perhaps the biggest contributor off the bench combining his smarts, savvy and still impressive skills to be a catalyst for the second unit. He can score, pass and even defend and he’s Thibs favorite player for a reason. He will turn 34 at the start of the season.
G Immanuel Quickley is another player with huge potential and he can do more than just score but his explosive offensive ability is his calling card. Unless the Knicks get Donovan Mitchell they will use distributed scoring to get their offense but IQ and Rose are explosive scorers who can get a lot of points in a hurry. BTW like everyone besides Fournier, Rose and Randle the ever improving IQ is under 25 years old. And like most every player on the team he has gotten better at defense.
G Quentin Grimes is an enigma of sorts. The Knicks have had their share of uber athletic busts but IMHO Grimes can be a major contributor. In the summer league he took the offensive lead for the team demonstrating much better ball skills and a confident shooting stroke. He’s a 2 way player who clicks 3 major boxes. He’s young. He’s good. He’s cheap. I’d love to keep him as a Knick but it’s not hard to see why he couldn’t be a vital trade component. In a way he might be redundant with IQ but his versatility is what is intriguing.
So deal or no deal I’m still good with this team for now. I’m also pragmatic that on the team right now IMHO there are no potential superstar players. We have a lot of guys who can be very good and few who could be stars but nobody who could climb that step to true superstar player. Can the Knicks win by committee? Without Donovan Mitchell that will be the case but if you look at the roster there is youth, depth and ability. Plus the Knicks addressed three major issues on this team with the acquisition of a good PG, addition of some outside shooting and generally more athleticism. Training camp kicks off the 3rd week of September.
It won’t be the first or likely the last time I am totally wrong or my timing is way off but until a deal is made I am still excited for next year with what the Knicks have right now.
Even before all this Mitchell stuff started to heat up there were voices in the Knicks camp ultra high on RJ, IQ, Grimes, Reddish and Toppin. Some tidbits. Grimes is a player Utah is going to like a lot because he’s good and he’s cheap. Reddish, IQ and Obi will be looking for extensions next summer. RJ could be signed to an extension this year. Utah wants good young players but they are more interested in draft choices. If the Knicks are more willing to trade draft capital it will cost them less in players. But still I believe they want Grimes.
So what happens if Ainge stays firm that he wants 4 players and 6 draft picks for Donovan Mitchell? I think we have already seen that Leon Rose won’t panic. I think right now there is a 50-50 chance that maybe the trade doesn’t get done. Ainge got a fortune for Rudy Gobert and once upon a time he fleeced the Nets. He’s looking to make a similar deal and Rose isn’t willing to empty the bank.
Right now I’m sort of torn because while recently I saw the merit of Mitchell it’s not going to crush me if the trade falls through especially if the Knicks have to over pay to get him. I think the Knicks braintrust are excellent judges of talent and I love the young guys on the team. Keeping our draft picks, or at least the best ones, is not a bad strategy moving forward.
I also like some of the stuff you hear on other boards. Obi Toppin or Julius Randle as a small forward? Randle has the handle and he dropped some weight and is looking amazing in posted workout videos and reportedly Obi has been working diligently on his ball handling and with a position less philosophy it could happen. One of the things Obi did during his 10 game run at the end of the season was to adjust the trajectory of his shot.The result was 58% from the field and 45% from beyond the arc for those last 10 games.
Cam Reddish has showed up on a couple of workout videos this summer reminding me what I liked about his game. He’s not explosive but he is athletic and his footwork is impeccable, He has a smooth, nice looking stroke and he’s good with his back to the basket or facing up. Like Obi he has been working on his handle and it shows. He can shoot off the bounce and he’s a smart player using the angles he can get, using his length and skill set and mostly playing within himself.
One of the prevailing thoughts in the hallowed halls of Knicksdom is that IQ has star ability. Lost in Obi’s 42 point game in the season’s finale against Toronto is IQ’s triple double and his 34 points.
I have seen a very valid point made that with all this talk about a trade between the Knicks and Jazz surely a deal will go down. I also recall how the Knicks were a lock to get LeBron and KD.
There are lots and lots of unanswered questions on the Knicks but there are also lots and lots of potential answers. Failing to land Mitchell will be viewed as a massive failure of Leon Rose and the Knicks. I do not share that opinion. I think the Knicks are way better this season, right now, because they fixed their biggest problem at PG. I don’t think Jalen Brunson is anywhere near a superstar player but I do think he can be a huge difference maker on the Knicks because has that leader gene and the skills to make his game work. He can take pressure off Randle, RJ and the rest of the Knicks leaving them to get better looks at the basket without having the burden of creating their own shot opportunities. BUT…I felt the Knicks made strides last summer with Kemba and Fournier. I was kinda wrong.
My viewpoint of the key players on the Knicks now.
STARTERS
PG Jalen Brunson is a great ball handler and shot maker with the ability to lead the team. He excels at the pick and roll and he can score at all three levels while still keeping his teammates involved. I like his intensity, smarts and leadership skills. He’s just 25 years old and while not a good defender he is willing.
SG RJ Barrett is still just 22 years old. Hard to believe. He averaged 20 PPG last season but his other numbers barely moved and his shooting % went down dramatically from the field and beyond the arc. He is still a work in progress but the raw material is there to be a star player and the one thing in his game that dramatically improved was his defense. Plus the kid is a worker. In fact all the Knicks are grinders.
SF Evan Fournier may be the starter. Hopefully not as I am firmly in the Cam Reddish camp or even Obi/Julius. I like Evan and he adds 3 point shooting ability and he can score off the dribble but he’s already at the top of his game while Cam, Obi and even Julius are nowhere near their celling.
PF Julius Randle looks svelte and in great shape in his workout videos. I am thinking the addition of Brunson helps him boost his offensive numbers and efficiency and hopefully the fans will cut him a break. Then again these are Knicks fans so…
C Mitchell Robinson was a huge signing this summer. I think the Knicks realize what I realize and that is Mitch is nowhere near his full ability especially on offense. Last season he gained muscle and it showed in his board work and his defense. I think an expanded offensive game goes a long ways towards making Mitch a true impact player.
BENCH
F Obi Toppin had a huge finish to last season averaging 20 PPG over his last 10 game while shooting phenomenally well from the field and beyond the arc. I think he changed his shot and his approach to make this huge stride and I don’t think it stops. To those who wish to trade Randle let me point out that while Obi is offensively precocious his rebounding and defense still needs work. IMHO he has more impact as a combo forward either off the bench or starting at SF.
F Cam Reddish is to me the biggest question mark on the team. Talent wise he is an athletic, skilled, two way player who can impact the game at both ends of the court. He is a veritable mountain of untapped potential and I’m still reminded I would not have been unhappy to take him over RJ in the draft. Cam is working hard on his game especially ball handling and being more consistent with his shot. He can score at all three levels and he’s a good passer and an above average defender. My best starting lineup has him at SF but he has to earn that which is especially tough with Coach Thibodeau.
C/F Isaiah Hartenstein was a steal signing by the Knicks. He’s a 7 footer with impressive offensive skills who is the epitome of efficiency. He doesn’t shoot much from beyond the arc but he can hit that shot and he can play in the post. You don’t lose a lot when he comes in for Mitch especially since he was one of the best rim protectors in the entire league last season.
G Derrick Rose is perhaps the biggest contributor off the bench combining his smarts, savvy and still impressive skills to be a catalyst for the second unit. He can score, pass and even defend and he’s Thibs favorite player for a reason. He will turn 34 at the start of the season.
G Immanuel Quickley is another player with huge potential and he can do more than just score but his explosive offensive ability is his calling card. Unless the Knicks get Donovan Mitchell they will use distributed scoring to get their offense but IQ and Rose are explosive scorers who can get a lot of points in a hurry. BTW like everyone besides Fournier, Rose and Randle the ever improving IQ is under 25 years old. And like most every player on the team he has gotten better at defense.
G Quentin Grimes is an enigma of sorts. The Knicks have had their share of uber athletic busts but IMHO Grimes can be a major contributor. In the summer league he took the offensive lead for the team demonstrating much better ball skills and a confident shooting stroke. He’s a 2 way player who clicks 3 major boxes. He’s young. He’s good. He’s cheap. I’d love to keep him as a Knick but it’s not hard to see why he couldn’t be a vital trade component. In a way he might be redundant with IQ but his versatility is what is intriguing.
So deal or no deal I’m still good with this team for now. I’m also pragmatic that on the team right now IMHO there are no potential superstar players. We have a lot of guys who can be very good and few who could be stars but nobody who could climb that step to true superstar player. Can the Knicks win by committee? Without Donovan Mitchell that will be the case but if you look at the roster there is youth, depth and ability. Plus the Knicks addressed three major issues on this team with the acquisition of a good PG, addition of some outside shooting and generally more athleticism. Training camp kicks off the 3rd week of September.
