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Post by trendsetta on Jul 14, 2022 11:59:13 GMT -5
I was taking a long drive and was listening to the local sports radio shows in the Metro area. One of the radio duos said that they would be willing to see RJ Barrett traded if it meant acquiring Mitchell. More than several callers said it was a bad idea but so long as Barrett wasn't included then it's a no-brainer. (The callers said OK to trading Toppin-- and just this morning I read that Ainge's team was interested in Grimes.) The radio personalities (Carlin and Canty) shouted the callers down.
This is a fraught subject, and I am fascinated on how Rose's team is going to fare against Ainge, who rarely loses a negotiation.
I for one don't want RJ Barrett traded away for a player of the sort that Mitchell is. Toppin, Grimes (my favorite rookie last season BTW), and picks, sure. I have always maintained that trading away drafted players of the caliber and potential of Barrett is bad karma, bad business. The Knicks have a had a history of doing just that in the Dolan era.
If Rose can pull this off, then good for the Knicks... not great, but good. And the reason I say merely good is because I don't think you can contend if Mitchell is your best player. He would need to cut down on his shot attempts and his usage rate, for a start. Up his assists and try to make others better. He'd have to rededicate himself to the defensive end. I also have my doubts on how well he and Jalen Brunson will play with each other. None of the your turn/my turn foolishness will work. Also, the Knicks would likely have the shortest backcourt in the entire NBA. These guys are only six feet tall, if that.
One last thing, unrelated: is there any other team in the NBA that starts three lefties?
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Post by greatgates36 on Jul 15, 2022 0:50:10 GMT -5
Excellent post. I cant trade Barrett and nultiple picks but I would trade Grimes, Fornier (salary match) and multiple picks. Very small backcourt but cant be worse defensively than Kemba and Evan were. Often you could hide one on a non posting jump shooting small forward. Since Rose and IQ are also small guards, Reddish or RJ would have to slide back occassionally while one of the munchkins matched up with a forward.. Id also then expect them to add a Tony Snell like vet (who will help during the regular season but guarantee a playoff losses) We would still be 11 or 12 deep.
I dont worry as Much about usage as Mitchell was playing with offensive riff. the big question becomes how many picks) I'd want 3, Ainge would want 5/ and is there any protections and also how many are options for Utah to swap picks with us.
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Post by greatgates36 on Jul 15, 2022 18:41:14 GMT -5
It seems Dildo Danny offered Mitchell for Grimes, Toppin, IQ and SIX first round picks. Hey Ainge ( to quote Shaq) "Tell me how my ass tastes"
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Post by daglazer on Jul 15, 2022 21:56:29 GMT -5
If we had not just signed Brunson, then Mitchell would be a good trade option. However, it is very hard to win with 2 poor defenders at the point of attack who are also short. So, I would not make a huge offer and hold my chips for the next available star who would be a better long term fit.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jul 16, 2022 9:38:02 GMT -5
I have given this trade considerable thought. I like Donovan Mitchell but IMHO he is not a franchise superstar. He'd be the best player on the Knicks but he's not the kind of guy who carries a team. That said the inescapable fact is it appears Leon Rose wants Donovan Mitchell on the Knicks and visa versa.
It is true Mitchell, like Brunson, is just 6'1 but he has a 6'10 wing span and the type of electric athleticism that closes the height gap quickly. His defensive numbers are middle of the pack so not bad but not good either. I imagine Thibs might be a factor in defensive performance too.
Mitchell is an average shooter. He is a gifted scorer and the type of guy who can get buckets when an offense bogs down. His usage numbers rank him 5th in the NBA so while the Knicks took the ball out of Randle's hands when they got Brunson they may take the ball out of Brunson's hands if they get Mitchell. 
So let's assume the inevitable and the Knicks trade for Mitchell. Danny Ainge engineered the trade of Rudy Gobert that yielded good players and 4 first round picks. Naturally his first trade offer to the Knicks for Mitchell will reflect the haul he got from Minnesota. I think it's a mortal lock he knew the Knicks would reject his Obi, IQ, Grimes, McBride and 6 first rounders proposal. Yet he had to make such an outrageous offer to gauge what NY might do. So what is fair?
Say goodbye to Obi and IQ and 3 first round picks plus either Fournier or Rose. Good trades hurt both sides but generally the team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. The fact of the matter is by concluding last season so impressively Obi and IQ made themselves way more valuable yet neither would be a starter for the Knicks. Also the fact there would be some defensive struggles in the backcourt means a tandem of Grimes (who has looked amazing in the summer league) and McBride would make an impressive defensive rotational tandem off the bench. Utah wants players under rookie draft contracts and both Obi and IQ qualify.
Under no circumstances does RJ become part of this trade! It won't happen because he is max extension eligible but just in case he is off limits! I wouldn't mind keeping Obi and trading Julius but that won't fly. So let's delve further into the Knicks if they make the trade I proposed.
Brunson and Mitchell are the starting guards. What they might lack in defense is made up by what they provide on offense. Plus they have Mitch guarding the rim. Julius, Mitch and RJ are the front court. My assumption is Rose is part of the trade since he has a team option one season sooner than Fournier. So the bench consists of Isaiah Hartenstein, Evan Fournier, Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride, Jericho Sims, Cam Reddish, Feron Hunt and Trevor Keels. I'm pretty sure the Knicks have an exception they can use too.
I'm big on Cam Reddish and what he can do as a hybrid forward but the guy most overlooked is Hartenstein. He's a 24 year old sharpshooting big who plays BOTH center and power forward. He's not just big he's also skilled and decently athletic. Start training Sims to be able to play some 4 and you have an impressive array of big options including Cam Reddish. Grimes has shown some ability as a scorer and McBride is no slouch there either so scoring off the bench shouldn't be a major issue.
CENTER: Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims
PF: Randle, Hartenstein, Reddish, Sims
SF: RJ, Reddish, Fournier, Grimes. Hunt
SG: Mitchell, Grimes, Fournier, Keels
PG: Brunson, McBride and player to be named later though I like Jean Montero off our summer league team.
Let me conclude by saying I would not be upset if the Knicks didn't trade for Mitchell. I like Obi. I like IQ. I like All-Stars too and a starting lineup with a slimmer, refocused Julius Randle playing more spot up than setup, a still emerging star in RJ, Brunson and Mitchell plus Robinson and the effect playing with Brunson will have on him is an exciting prospect. IF the price is right. Leon Rose knows how to negotiate so it should be interesting to see what he does versus Ainge. One thing for sure. Leon is nothing like Donnie Walsh.
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Post by axios on Jul 19, 2022 12:18:07 GMT -5
I dont want him, bc we could have had him with our pick. continue our rebuild. Utah couldnt go anywhere with him, what will we have with him? less. Pass, no thank you. Ainge is a twat.
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Post by pearl on Jul 22, 2022 7:08:39 GMT -5
Donovan would help the Knicks when they're offense breaks down, which is too often. However, 2 starting guards at 6-1 inches of height trying to guard the taller guards in this league is not ideal. Giving up more than 4 first rounders as well is crazy. I'd do it for Jason Tatum, not Donovan Mitchell. I'm with Bill on this one, if the deal is right, I'd pull the trigger, if not I'm fine with the young, developing squad.
Pearl
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Post by irish2u2 on Jul 27, 2022 15:10:10 GMT -5
Donovan would help the Knicks when they're offense breaks down, which is too often. However, 2 starting guards at 6-1 inches of height trying to guard the taller guards in this league is not ideal. Giving up more than 4 first rounders as well is crazy. I'd do it for Jason Tatum, not Donovan Mitchell. I'm with Bill on this one, if the deal is right, I'd pull the trigger, if not I'm fine with the young, developing squad. Pearl |
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Post by greatgates36 on Jul 27, 2022 22:53:27 GMT -5
Donovan would help the Knicks when they're offense breaks down, which is too often. However, 2 starting guards at 6-1 inches of height trying to guard the taller guards in this league is not ideal. Giving up more than 4 first rounders as well is crazy. I'd do it for Jason Tatum, not Donovan Mitchell. I'm with Bill on this one, if the deal is right, I'd pull the trigger, if not I'm fine with the young, developing squad. Pearl |
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Post by trendsetta on Jul 28, 2022 17:51:08 GMT -5
BTW, I have totally changed my mind on Obi. He is off the table. Make it IQ and Fournier and 4 picks with the draft protection off. That's more than fair and to me totally acceptable. Otherwise roll with what we got. I think Grimes may be more versatile on defense and also grittier ie more effective in the playoffs. The Knicks will be a mediocre defensive team. Does EQ give us a net positive is the question compared to Grimes if Mitchell is in the same backcourt as Brunson? Wouldn't the Knicks be better off with an enforcer-type like Grimes? |
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Post by greatgates36 on Jul 28, 2022 20:03:50 GMT -5
I like it Bill. But I'd prefer trading Grimes instead of IQ I think Grimes may be more versatile on defense and also grittier ie more effective in the playoffs. The Knicks will be a mediocre defensive team. Does EQ give us a net positive is the question compared to Grimes if Mitchell is in the same backcourt as Brunson? Wouldn't the Knicks be better off with an enforcer-type like Grimes? Everything you state is correct. Grimes is a much better fit. I just think IQ is significantly better. With Mitchell we would need another big guard but Grimes don't wow me yet |
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Post by irish2u2 on Jul 29, 2022 9:35:00 GMT -5
BTW, I have totally changed my mind on Obi. He is off the table. Make it IQ and Fournier and 4 picks with the draft protection off. That's more than fair and to me totally acceptable. Otherwise roll with what we got.
Tommy Beer Reasons Why Knicks get Spida
Basically the numbers on Mitchell are so compelling that my original assertion Mitchell is no superstar may be flawed. I have changed directions on Obi too so he's expendable and as Mark pointed out to me IQ and Mitchell are tight so Grimes will go before Quickley. Also trading Obi opens the door for a Melo reunion.
That's it!!! No more changing my mind unless Mark changes his! |
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Post by daglazer on Jul 29, 2022 16:09:03 GMT -5
I like it Bill. But I'd prefer trading Grimes instead of IQ
Tommy Beer Reasons Why Knicks get Spida
Basically the numbers on Mitchell are so compelling that my original assertion Mitchell is no superstar may be flawed. I have changed directions on Obi too so he's expendable and as Mark pointed out to me IQ and Mitchell are tight so Grimes will go before Quickley. Also trading Obi opens the door for a Melo reunion.
That's it!!! No more changing my mind unless Mark changes his!
ARRGGHH!!! NO REUNION WITH CARMELO!!! He is the opposite of what we need on this team
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Post by irish2u2 on Jul 29, 2022 18:14:15 GMT -5
Melo isn’t a cancer like Kyrie or Simmons. He can get backup power forward minutes behind Randle.
In this scenario, with Obi traded, I don’t mind a Melo return. I always liked him. 😎
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