Knicks Orlando 11/17

[trendsetta]

I said before the season that in terms of win shares that I was surprised how close the Payton/Bullock tandem was to the Walker/Fournier tandem. At this early juncture it seems like the swaps are robbing Peter to pay Paul. You acquire more offense but give up defense. Let's face it: both Walker and Fournier are godawful on defense. 

A few games ago I noted that Randle often has played defense with his arms down. And last night Clyde noted that when a Magic player got into the lane at one point late in the game, that both Randle and another Knick had their arms at their sides instead of out. This of course allowed the player to go where he wanted and maintain his dribble if not eventually score. Knicks are in the bottom half defensively this year so far.

By contrast: Tuesday I felt compelled to watch the Warriors play the Nyets. The way the Warriors swarmed the entire game, led by Steph Curry by the way, made me wistful for the Knicks to do the same. What is going on there? This falls on Randle's shoulders as the putative leader of the team. Last year he was a net positive and so far this year a net negative. And defensively you can't call on Walker to be that guy, no way no how.

The other problem is I really don't see a lot of set plays being run. I mentioned this about a week ago and Gates confirmed this in his "starters" thread where he quotes a NY Post article. And last night I didn't see a ton of set plays either, except a couple of times they sort of did a Princeton 3-man weave at the top of key, but not effectively. I saw a lot of over-handling and one-on-one stuff. Worse still is the fact that the Knicks looked lost against the Magic zone, which is a sign of lazy passing and not moving without the ball. Lastly, with Walker being a quasi-point guard, it seems to be affecting Randle's willingness to be a playmaker. His usage rate and assist rate are not as balanced as last year.

I don't know what the fix is for these things but if Thibs is true to his word, ie he's going to play guys or playing well, then he may need to start reducing minutes of Fournier and Walker, up the minutes of Burks and IQ.

Would it be so bad to start these guys? Maybe Randle/RJ/Mitch/Burks/IQ would have better chemistry?

[greatgates36]

Nov 18, 2021 19:15:49 GMT -5 trendsetta said:

I said before the season that in terms of win shares that I was surprised how close the Payton/Bullock tandem was to the Walker/Fournier tandem. At this early juncture it seems like the swaps are robbing Peter to pay Paul. You acquire more offense but give up defense. Let's face it: both Walker and Fournier are godawful on defense. 

A few games ago I noted that Randle often has played defense with his arms down. And last night Clyde noted that when a Magic player got into the lane at one point late in the game, that both Randle and another Knick had their arms at their sides instead of out. This of course allowed the player to go where he wanted and maintain his dribble if not eventually score. Knicks are in the bottom half defensively this year so far.

By contrast: Tuesday I felt compelled to watch the Warriors play the Nyets. The way the Warriors swarmed the entire game, led by Steph Curry by the way, made me wistful for the Knicks to do the same. What is going on there? This falls on Randle's shoulders as the putative leader of the team. Last year he was a net positive and so far this year a net negative. And defensively you can't call on Walker to be that guy, no way no how.

The other problem is I really don't see a lot of set plays being run. I mentioned this about a week ago and Gates confirmed this in his "starters" thread where he quotes a NY Post article. And last night I didn't see a ton of set plays either, except a couple of times they sort of did a Princeton 3-man weave at the top of key, but not effectively. I saw a lot of over-handling and one-on-one stuff. Worse still is the fact that the Knicks looked lost against the Magic zone, which is a sign of lazy passing and not moving without the ball. Lastly, with Walker being a quasi-point guard, it seems to be affecting Randle's willingness to be a playmaker. His usage rate and assist rate are not as balanced as last year.

I don't know what the fix is for these things but if Thibs is true to his word, ie he's going to play guys or playing well, then he may need to start reducing minutes of Fournier and Walker, up the minutes of Burks and IQ.

Would it be so bad to start these guys? Maybe Randle/RJ/Mitch/Burks/IQ would have better chemistry?

That 5 you mentioned would definitely have better chemisty. They already do from last year. But I would like to see the starters get more time to figure each other out. I watched a stretch of maybe seven possessions where Fornier touched the ball once. Not shot once but TOUCHED the ball once. RJ starts 3rd quarters going hard left every time he doesn't shoot. And Julius just probes and probes and probes. Meanwhile there is minimal player or ball movement when either has the ball. Just static. Neither is selfish on offense BUT the result is just iso madness with no cutters. I had hoped that the more sets that the post claimed the knicks were working on will materialize. in time. And finally  Julius has to post up sometimes. I realize we want to shoot more threes than last year,, But specifically when we get a switch Julius needs to race to the post and punish folks (not the mid post but deep post (and if he draws a double all the better). You mention GS. There are times when they just rifle the ball. Meanwhile we never just catch and move it immediately. Take that back I have seen quick ball reversals or quick swings from the bench.