We smacked those Clippers in the mouth....

[jbnewyork162]

.....and I f'n love it.

We need to give Rose his flowers while he's here, no pun intended. He and Randle(who is a top 10 player, probably 10 all bias aside), are the bloody truth.

I'm in LOVE with this team. I just love em. Just pure joy with this win that might be the best of them all so far. Lakers on Tuesday.

Ps RJ Barrett in my opinion has surpassed Ja Morant in talent and on court effectiveness. His defense and his offense is ON POINT.

#knickstape

[garyd]

I watch both the Lakers and Clippers. Both teams have the aspects of being good and being haughty. Collectively because of this, I call Los Angeles 'Los Arrogance'. Its always a treat when I see the Clip/Lakers lose to a team they Assume ready to roll over.

LeBron leads that group. Leonard isn't far behind. Lebron was/is a great basketball player but assumes being in the spotlight means that he must be the greatest in everything. BTW, I expect Doncic to also get there soon.

LeBron's move to denigrate the Cop that took down one girl to save another is the apex of self attitude for me.

In the department store world of life, Sports is the toys department. An enjoyable diversion.

[rxmeister]

I don’t want to get political here, Gary, but did the cop really have to kill the girl to save the other? Can cops become better at shooting so that they can take down someone with a shot to the leg? She was 15 years old! You know how many “troubled teens” later turned around their lives and became wonderful people? She will never get that chance. But this is about the Knicks beating the Clippers, the best win of the year n my opinion because of the last two bad losses. I love this team too, and Jason you DID intend that pun! Even in the losses on this trip DRose has elevated his game and been the best Knick on the floor, and he was flat out the best player on either team yesterday, and the other team had Kawhi and PG! And kudos to Julius Randle, who after seeing how the defense dedicated itself to stopping him, unselfishly subjugated his game so that the offense ran through Derrick, but then came back to drill three straight clutch jumpers down the stretch. Remember early in the season when we were losing those close games because we didn’t have that go to guy down the stretch? Turned out we did! It’s funny, because when I think of next year’s team I know we have to get better to be true contenders, but I love this team so much that outside of the obvious, (that’s you Elf!) I want everyone back next year. At the top of the list of course is Derrick Rose, even if it’s as a backup to our brand new franchise point guard.

[jbnewyork162]

May 10, 2021 8:03:57 GMT -5 rxmeister said:

I don’t want to get political here, Gary, but did the cop really have to kill the girl to save the other? Can cops become better at shooting so that they can take down someone with a shot to the leg? She was 15 years old! You know how many “troubled teens” later turned around their lives and became wonderful people? She will never get that chance. But this is about the Knicks beating the Clippers, the best win of the year n my opinion because of the last two bad losses. I love this team too, and Jason you DID intend that pun! Even in the losses on this trip DRose has elevated his game and been the best Knick on the floor, and he was flat out the best player on either team yesterday, and the other team had Kawhi and PG! And kudos to Julius Randle, who after seeing how the defense dedicated itself to stopping him, unselfishly subjugated his game so that the offense ran through Derrick, but then came back to drill three straight clutch jumpers down the stretch. Remember early in the season when we were losing those close games because we didn’t have that go to guy down the stretch? Turned out we did! It’s funny, because when I think of next year’s team I know we have to get better to be true contenders, but I love this team so much that outside of the obvious, (that’s you Elf!) I want everyone back next year. At the top of the list of course is Derrick Rose, even if it’s as a backup to our brand new franchise point guard.

Thank you Mark. I was kind of weirded out how this on the first reply turned into anything that had to do with Lebron or political views on him.

But um yeah I just love our fight and grit and yes I did in fact mean that Rose pun.

I don't disagree with a word.

[irish2u2]

I put a response to the political issue on the GENERAL BOARD. Please limit your political responses to that forum and not this one. 

Here I will respond to the basketball questions.

I do love this team.   I love their grit, toughness and how they play together. They aren't a championship team yet but they are getting closer. The right pieces this summer and maybe we play for the big prize. 

But I will say I HATE how some of our fans, including ones here, disrespect the players and the game. I get Elfrid Payton has major holes in his game. I watch the games too.   But he plays hard and mostly smart and he does a lot of little things our fans miss. Like they miss the intangibles of Frank Ntilikina. That doesn't mean I wouldn't replace either but along with their weaknesses it would be fair to acknowledge their strengths too and the fact Thibs trust these guys. All a Knicks player has to do to earn my respect is play hard and be a good teammate. I dislike intensely guys like Porzingis, Curry and Jerome James because they violated my basic rules. But at the same time I won't hate on Elfrid because he can't shoot treys. My brothers should also be reminded these guys made it to the Big Show. That alone commands respect but they also wear Orange and Blue. That should matter. And y'all need to be reminded of how some of you vilified Julius Randle and doubted RJ last season.  The difference in both players is now they hit 3 pointers. 

Getting off my Bully Pulpit I think Elfrid is gone this summer. The Knicks made too big an investment in Luca Vildoza not to think he is at least a rotational player. I don't know about Frank and Knox but their age (22 and 21) are in their favor. Maybe. 

This was a big win especially since LeBron and AD will play against the Knicks Tuesday. Then 3 home games against San Antonio, Charlotte and Boston. Tough games. Winnable games. Going 4-2 on this road trip would be huge. 3-3 is all right like kissing your sister is all right. 

[jbnewyork162]

May 10, 2021 11:24:31 GMT -5 irish2u2 said:

I put a response to the political issue on the GENERAL BOARD. Please limit your political responses to that forum and not this one. 

Here I will respond to the basketball questions.

I do love this team.   I love their grit, toughness and how they play together. They aren't a championship team yet but they are getting closer. The right pieces this summer and maybe we play for the big prize. 

But I will say I HATE how some of our fans, including ones here, disrespect the players and the game. I get Elfrid Payton has major holes in his game. I watch the games too.   But he plays hard and mostly smart and he does a lot of little things our fans miss. Like they miss the intangibles of Frank Ntilikina. That doesn't mean I wouldn't replace either but along with their weaknesses it would be fair to acknowledge their strengths too and the fact Thibs trust these guys. All a Knicks player has to do to earn my respect is play hard and be a good teammate. I dislike intensely guys like Porzingis, Curry and Jerome James because they violated my basic rules. But at the same time I won't hate on Elfrid because he can't shoot treys. My brothers should also be reminded these guys made it to the Big Show. That alone commands respect but they also wear Orange and Blue. That should matter. And y'all need to be reminded of how some of you vilified Julius Randle and doubted RJ last season.  The difference in both players is now they hit 3 pointers. 

Getting off my Bully Pulpit I think Elfrid is gone this summer. The Knicks made too big an investment in Luca Vildoza not to think he is at least a rotational player. I don't know about Frank and Knox but their age (22 and 21) are in their favor. Maybe. 

This was a big win especially since LeBron and AD will play against the Knicks Tuesday. Then 3 home games against San Antonio, Charlotte and Boston. Tough games. Winnable games. Going 4-2 on this road trip would be huge. 3-3 is all right like kissing your sister is all right. 

I think the growth and play of Randle and the lack of growth and play of Payton are like apples and watermelons. They both are fruits but that's where it ends.

Randle has admitted himself he didn't fully commit to growing as a player last season versus this one on multiple occasions.

So this is why I and others can say we like this version of Randle because he is being coached extremely well, and he has put in more work than the Fizdale/Miller season version.


It is ok for any fan to drink as much kool-aid as they want or be as critical of a player as they want, especially if it's justified. And Payton is making Rose have to play flawless in order to keep leads Payton squanders. Thibs trusts Payton because he doesn't have a choice.

If Frank ran a team on par or better than Rose he'd be the starter or Rose's direct backup by now and we may have even kept Rivers.

Point is I see nothing wrong with pointing out how inept a player is to the total winning effort we are trying to make. Payton shouldn't be resigned because he hurts more than he helps.

If anything in a walk year he should be not dribbling into layups he squanders or calling off screens like he does. Even when the players do well this guy is the only player not standing and cheering his team.

I'm grateful that Rose closes, but I mean if wasn't here we'd have lost at least 6 or 7 of these games and be fighting for 9th or 10 in the play in tournament.

[irish2u2]

Being critical of players is more than all right. It’s expected. But show respect. Don’t be mean. It’s almost like some of y’all take it personal when a player screws up. Plus be fair because Payton has won more games than he has lost.

[jbnewyork162]

May 10, 2021 16:22:51 GMT -5 irish2u2 said:

Being critical of players is more than all right. It’s expected. But show respect. Don’t be mean. It’s almost like some of y’all take it personal when a player screws up. Plus be fair because Payton has won more games than he has lost.

Let's put it this way, you weren't nice about Porzingis when he was here because of the things he's showing you now, like his pity parties, his asshole entitled attitude and his injury history. You've said this multiple times and have stuck with that.


How is that any different than me or Mark or others being pissed this player in Payton being as useless as thrice(yes I said thrice) reused condom in a brothel.

Your criticism of Porzingis even when he did well here was very similar if not the same as mine or others of Payton.

I root for him because he's on the team but I don't like how he froze the young players out last year and sometimes does it this season. He can't hit a layup 50% of the time. He hits the passing lanes but surgically repaired former MVP passed his prime is outplaying a 20 something year old who is in his walk year.

There's no reason that a 7 year vet should be hitting the side of the backboard on a corner three that even Frank and Obi can make in their sleep.

I'll give you an example that I can be nice. I think Jason Kidd is a sleazeball but in his one lone season we won over 50 games, he was our sleazeball and performed and executed, And he was one of the best three point shooters of all time before he retired.

When he left I couldn't stand the battery again. Point is when Payton performs to the same grade merely Bullock and Rose and Noel does(play his role like they do) then I'll lay off.

I'm sure you understand that I'm not being unreasonable to say he needs a mental awakening like Randle had if he's going to be a player in this league. Payton might have 4 years left if that in the NBA.

[ReneNYG1]

I agree with you Bill ,Payton can be frustrating missing layups but I really do admire his toughness.He's probably gone in off season and knows it too but what I like most about Payton is his drive he is non stop and he is extremely gritty players which I think rubs off on others.

[irish2u2]

May 10, 2021 17:11:39 GMT -5 jbnewyork162 said:

May 10, 2021 16:22:51 GMT -5 irish2u2 said:

Being critical of players is more than all right. It’s expected. But show respect. Don’t be mean. It’s almost like some of y’all take it personal when a player screws up. Plus be fair because Payton has won more games than he has lost.

Let's put it this way, you weren't nice about Porzingis when he was here because of the things he's showing you now, like his pity parties, his asshole entitled attitude and his injury history. You've said this multiple times and have stuck with that.


How is that any different than me or Mark or others being pissed this player in Payton being as useless as thrice(yes I said thrice) reused condom in a brothel.

Your criticism of Porzingis even when he did well here was very similar if not the same as mine or others of Payton.

I root for him because he's on the team but I don't like how he froze the young players out last year and sometimes does it this season. He can't hit a layup 50% of the time. He hits the passing lanes but surgically repaired former MVP passed his prime is outplaying a 20 something year old who is in his walk year.

There's no reason that a 7 year vet should be hitting the side of the backboard on a corner three that even Frank and Obi can make in their sleep.

I'll give you an example that I can be nice. I think Jason Kidd is a sleazeball but in his one lone season we won over 50 games, he was our sleazeball and performed and executed, And he was one of the best three point shooters of all time before he retired.

When he left I couldn't stand the battery again. Point is when Payton performs to the same grade merely Bullock and Rose and Noel does(play his role like they do) then I'll lay off.

I'm sure you understand that I'm not being unreasonable to say he needs a mental awakening like Randle had if he's going to be a player in this league. Payton might have 4 years left if that in the NBA.

Porzingis BETRAYED the Knicks. That is way different than dissing a player because he isn't as good as you wish. We must have different memories because when Porzingis was just playing for the Knicks and not trying to run the Knicks I was very supportive. 

My turn for an example. The player I hated the most was Austin Rivers. He became a Knick and I put my animosity towards him aside. 

FWIW Jason Kidd is in the HOF shooting 40% from the field and 35% from the 3 point line. Hardly stellar shooting numbers.   I didn't like him either. Or Sheed. As Knicks I saw them from a different perspective and my mind changed. As for Peyton I won't be crying when he signs with another team this summer. But I won't be cursing him out either because he couldn't hit a 3 point jump shot. Let's face it. If Elfrid hit 37% of his 3 point attempts would y'all be kinder? Bottom line with me is if they are on my team and they play hard and they have character I'll pull for them. 

[Deleted]

May 10, 2021 11:24:31 GMT -5 irish2u2 said:

I put a response to the political issue on the GENERAL BOARD. Please limit your political responses to that forum and not this one. 

Here I will respond to the basketball questions.

I do love this team.   I love their grit, toughness and how they play together. They aren't a championship team yet but they are getting closer. The right pieces this summer and maybe we play for the big prize. 

But I will say I HATE how some of our fans, including ones here, disrespect the players and the game. I get Elfrid Payton has major holes in his game. I watch the games too.   But he plays hard and mostly smart and he does a lot of little things our fans miss. Like they miss the intangibles of Frank Ntilikina. That doesn't mean I wouldn't replace either but along with their weaknesses it would be fair to acknowledge their strengths too and the fact Thibs trust these guys. All a Knicks player has to do to earn my respect is play hard and be a good teammate. I dislike intensely guys like Porzingis, Curry and Jerome James because they violated my basic rules. But at the same time I won't hate on Elfrid because he can't shoot treys. My brothers should also be reminded these guys made it to the Big Show. That alone commands respect but they also wear Orange and Blue. That should matter. And y'all need to be reminded of how some of you vilified Julius Randle and doubted RJ last season.  The difference in both players is now they hit 3 pointers. 

Getting off my Bully Pulpit I think Elfrid is gone this summer. The Knicks made too big an investment in Luca Vildoza not to think he is at least a rotational player. I don't know about Frank and Knox but their age (22 and 21) are in their favor. Maybe. 

This was a big win especially since LeBron and AD will play against the Knicks Tuesday. Then 3 home games against San Antonio, Charlotte and Boston. Tough games. Winnable games. Going 4-2 on this road trip would be huge. 3-3 is all right like kissing your sister is all right. 

I have say that I am king of the anti Frank club. While I lliked Randle and JR last year and felt they played reasonably well, I also have been a fan of Elfrid and feel he'd be an excellent backup, which in fact is how Thibs basically uses him. But frank; but Frank; but Frank!. I'd be the first to acknowledge I miss seeing his intangibles. Good haircut, fits uniform well, tries hard on defense.  But i do see his TANGIBLES.. One good game out of 5 (on the Ron baker/ Edmund Sherrod/ Luther Burden curve) This guy has that "go through his legs for absolutely no reason" move where he stands in place afterwards .What is that.  Then he drives into the lane for a ten foot pullup - Shot goes FOUR FEET.  I know i shouldnt criticize a man, make that a eunuch, that tries. But i watched Duck Hodges play quarterback for a season. Eyes still hurt.  And Thibs trusts him??   compared to Harper, and Pinson maybe , But he didnt trust him the second half.  Why? because Thibs  doesn't want to play someone that might be worse then JR Smith's brother.
OK my rant is done. And I hate to offend so I'll take down the photo of Frank wearing  a Glad garbage bag. And i'll ease up on the criticizing. 


 

[Deleted]

I tried. Cant do ease up . Frank SUCKS.

[garyd]

In reading here about PG Elfrid Payton I seem to be more in Bill's corner regarding how to evaluate him as NY Knicks PG. Certainly he is not a typical starter for most NBA teams, and Rose though restricted in minutes now, certainly does more in his minutes. But looking at this year's numbers Elfrid does contribute enough to set up Roses' performance IMO.

it's not unusual to form opinions based on personal preferences. When the Knicks got Rivers I thought he would be a microwave scorer for the Knicks from his games with the Clippers, and he wasn’t. Just a year ago Randall was not the hero he is looked at today. It Surprised me. So here's the numbers: First line is Rose, the second is Payton. Elfrid seems to have done pretty well IMO.

Next year we will likely improve at the backup PG position. As Capt. Picard said "Make it so!"

Min Pts Reb Ast Stl Blk TO ATO
Rose 26.6 14.8 2.8 4.2 0.9 0.4 1.3 3.1
Payton 24.3 10.8 3.5 3.3 0.8 0.2 1.7 2.0