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Post by irish2u2 on Mar 14, 2021 20:48:42 GMT -5
I can’t say much here because I react to Dave pretty much exactly like he reacts to Dolan. 😎 I will say this though. I love you Gates but you are dead wrong. I love Mark too and he is dead right. 😎😎😎  ) Am I wrong about Frank or Fill or our Dave? Please don't tell me it's Fill  Fill? No. You are right as rain there. 😎 Frank? Maybe. Dave. Maybe but likely. 😎 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2021 20:53:06 GMT -5
I gotta stick up for Trend here on 2 points. And yes, I would have bet he'd make a comment in this situation. And also I'd bet someone here, possibly me 😂 would make a joke about it. But everyone here has their biases, often accurate boiling points. Mention Fill and I'm back ranting. Or more currently mention Frank as a point guard and well read my NEXT post. I was intrigued that the first MSG post wasn't about security but was to absolve Dolan, which wasn't even Patrick's main complaint. Second I don't see Trend as a Brooklyn fan. A Brooklyn borough fan but still a knicks team fan. He has a certain view of how the game should be played (and viewed) and strongly shares that view. I often strongly disagree but respect his takes (Will always love me some Melo) And I do think of Trend every time I see some Elmer Fudd blow past Obi. Thanks for the thoughtfulness, Gates. Best hope for Toppin is he learns to be a decent help defender, but that too may be too late in the game for him to develop. He does have a modicum of court vision, to be sure. Perhaps he can parlay that into something, but then you also need good instincts to play good help defense. The one on one defense will always hinder him. Why do so many NBA athletes have great forward explosiveness but poor reverse backpedaling and even more rare.... lateral quickness? To me he isn't really an elite athlete, all things being relative. I've given up on Frank. He, like Toppin, is a tweener. Beware the tweeners. Tweeners rarely have "floor impactful" games. By contrast, RJ Barrett is no tweener but rather a "swingman." Totally different player and we all should be glad to have him. I attended Nets games years ago when they foolishly traded for Pierce and Garnett. Had they not BOTH come to Brooklyn I likely would not have bothered to watch them live. But I couldn't help myself. Their teamwork was worth seeing them play live. I know you hate Pierce and likely feel negative towards Garnett, but you must admit they were great in the two-man game and by themselves. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2021 21:09:06 GMT -5
I gotta stick up for Trend here on 2 points. And yes, I would have bet he'd make a comment in this situation. And also I'd bet0 And I do think of Trend every time I see some Elmer Fudd blow past Obi. Thanks for the thoughtfulness, Gates. Best hope for Toppin is he learns to be a decent help defender, but that too may be too late in the game for him to develop. He does have a modicum of court vision, to be sure. Perhaps he can parlay that into something, but then you also need good instincts to play good help defense. The one on one defense will always hinder him. Why do so many NBA athletes have great forward explosiveness but poor reverse backpedaling and even more rare.... lateral quickness? To me he isn't really an elite athlete, all things being relative. I've given up on Frank. He, like Toppin, is a tweener. Beware the tweeners. Tweeners rarely have "floor impactful" games. By contrast, RJ Barrett is no tweener but rather a "swingman." Totally different player and we all should be glad to have him. I attended Nets games years ago when they foolishly traded for Pierce and Garnett. Had they not BOTH come to Brooklyn I likely would not have bothered to watch them live. But I couldn't help myself. Their teamwork was worth seeing them play live. I know you hate Pierce and likely feel negative towards Garnett, but you must admit they were great in the two-man game and by themselves. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Mar 14, 2021 21:17:35 GMT -5
Gates
Look at RJ last year and this year. He got beat off the bounce by ball boys. 😎 This year his defense is stellar. Obi knows the game but the strength and quickness difference between college and the pros is profound. He will get better if only because Thibs won’t play him if he doesn’t. 😎
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2021 0:46:59 GMT -5
Gates Look at RJ last year and this year. He got beat off the bounce by ball boys. 😎 This year his defense is stellar. Obi knows the game but the strength and quickness difference between college and the pros is profound. He will get better if only because Thibs won’t play him if he doesn’t. 😎 Agree with every bit of this. RJ is so much better on defense. Better mental prep and better mini techniques. Also understanding where your help is located. And having teammates that understand your weaknesses. |
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Post by trendsetta on Mar 15, 2021 13:17:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the thoughtfulness, Gates. Best hope for Toppin is he learns to be a decent help defender, but that too may be too late in the game for him to develop. He does have a modicum of court vision, to be sure. Perhaps he can parlay that into something, but then you also need good instincts to play good help defense. The one on one defense will always hinder him. Why do so many NBA athletes have great forward explosiveness but poor reverse backpedaling and even more rare.... lateral quickness? To me he isn't really an elite athlete, all things being relative. I've given up on Frank. He, like Toppin, is a tweener. Beware the tweeners. Tweeners rarely have "floor impactful" games. By contrast, RJ Barrett is no tweener but rather a "swingman." Totally different player and we all should be glad to have him. I attended Nets games years ago when they foolishly traded for Pierce and Garnett. Had they not BOTH come to Brooklyn I likely would not have bothered to watch them live. But I couldn't help myself. Their teamwork was worth seeing them play live. I know you hate Pierce and likely feel negative towards Garnett, but you must admit they were great in the two-man game and by themselves. Beware the tweeners ? Obi is 6’9. NOT a tweener as a forward. He’s also a rookie. A fucking ROOKIE! Saying he can’t learn anything is patently moronic. Just like calling Randle a waste of money and a mistake. Still waiting for your mea culpa. NOT holding my breath though. 😎 Can’t wait to see your selfie in your Nets jersey. 😎 Ummm... he's 23 and he had 4 years of college-- most top-ten picks leave after one or two college seasons these days. Technically a rookie sure, but in reality? The problem is that certain players have to switch to a "lower" position in the NBA from their college position because NBA players on the whole are bigger and quicker. So Toppin, while listed as a power forward is not big enough or strong enough to defend like a power forward. And he's surely too slow-footed to guard most above average small forwards. That's a tweener. The remedy is for him to work assiduously on his 3-point shooting and his passing game. It reminds me of poor Michael Super Cool Beasley. Dominant as a PF in college and stuck as a tweener in the NBA. Plenty of college-sized PGs who are too small for the NBA, just as there are plenty of decent shooting guards at the college level who can't make the transition to the NBA unless they learn how to be ball-handlers and playmakers because they lack the size to remain shooting guards at the NBA level. Small forwards in college become shooting guards or they don't, swingmen or they don't. As to Randle, he was simply not good last year, getting first option touches/numbers/usage on a 17-41 team (be it a 3rd option in a first option role, in over his head, not being a good playmaker, not in supreme shape)-- so bad that me, Rene, Axios, and JB wanted to trade him. Perhaps your quibble should be with them, since you hold them in such high esteem while in your world I am an irritating moron. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Mar 15, 2021 13:55:10 GMT -5
Beware the tweeners ? Obi is 6’9. NOT a tweener as a forward. He’s also a rookie. A fucking ROOKIE! Saying he can’t learn anything is patently moronic. Just like calling Randle a waste of money and a mistake. Still waiting for your mea culpa. NOT holding my breath though. 😎 Can’t wait to see your selfie in your Nets jersey. 😎 Ummm... he's 23 and he had 4 years of college-- most top-ten picks leave after one or two college seasons these days. Technically a rookie sure, but in reality? The problem is that certain players have to switch to a "lower" position in the NBA from their college position because NBA players on the whole are bigger and quicker. So Toppin, while listed as a power forward is not big enough or strong enough to defend like a power forward. And he's surely too slow-footed to guard most above average small forwards. That's a tweener. The remedy is for him to work assiduously on his 3-point shooting and his passing game. It reminds me of poor Michael Super Cool Beasley. Dominant as a PF in college and stuck as a tweener in the NBA. Plenty of college-sized PGs who are too small for the NBA, just as there are plenty of decent shooting guards at the college level who can't make the transition to the NBA unless they learn how to be ball-handlers and playmakers because they lack the size to remain shooting guards at the NBA level. Small forwards in college become shooting guards or they don't, swingmen or they don't. As to Randle, he was simply not good last year, getting first option touches/numbers/usage on a 17-41 team (be it a 3rd option in a first option role, in over his head, not being a good playmaker, not in supreme shape)-- so bad that me, Rene, Axios, and JB wanted to trade him. Perhaps your quibble should be with them, since you hold them in such high esteem while in your world I am an irritating moron.  Seriously I argued vociferously with anybody and everybody on Randle. You were just ruder and more arrogant about it which is why I still await your mea culpas on Randle even last year when he led the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Just like this year. Coaching has certainly helped him become the toast of New York but character factors in too and that just didn't develop over the summer. In fact given the criticism he got last year it's a sign of his character that he worked harder and longer to improve.
As for Obi EVERYBODY here said he was a PF. I alone said he was a hybrid forward and he still can be. When you watch the games you see hints and signs of an offensive precociousness we saw last year in RJ Barrett. Plus at 220+ lbs he's hardly a shrinking violet. Four years at Dayton hardly prepares one for the NBA but give the kid time. He's got skills and he's got the physical gifts that need to be crafted some. Like IQ the kid is a gym rat. He'll improve. |
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Post by trendsetta on Mar 15, 2021 17:28:38 GMT -5
Ummm... he's 23 and he had 4 years of college-- most top-ten picks leave after one or two college seasons these days. Technically a rookie sure, but in reality? The problem is that certain players have to switch to a "lower" position in the NBA from their college position because NBA players on the whole are bigger and quicker. So Toppin, while listed as a power forward is not big enough or strong enough to defend like a power forward. And he's surely too slow-footed to guard most above average small forwards. That's a tweener. The remedy is for him to work assiduously on his 3-point shooting and his passing game. It reminds me of poor Michael Super Cool Beasley. Dominant as a PF in college and stuck as a tweener in the NBA. Plenty of college-sized PGs who are too small for the NBA, just as there are plenty of decent shooting guards at the college level who can't make the transition to the NBA unless they learn how to be ball-handlers and playmakers because they lack the size to remain shooting guards at the NBA level. Small forwards in college become shooting guards or they don't, swingmen or they don't. As to Randle, he was simply not good last year, getting first option touches/numbers/usage on a 17-41 team (be it a 3rd option in a first option role, in over his head, not being a good playmaker, not in supreme shape)-- so bad that me, Rene, Axios, and JB wanted to trade him. Perhaps your quibble should be with them, since you hold them in such high esteem while in your world I am an irritating moron.
As for Obi EVERYBODY here said he was a PF. I alone said he was a hybrid forward and he still can be. When you watch the games you see hints and signs of an offensive precociousness we saw last year in RJ Barrett. Plus at 220+ lbs he's hardly a shrinking violet. Four years at Dayton hardly prepares one for the NBA but give the kid time. He's got skills and he's got the physical gifts that need to be crafted some. Like IQ the kid is a gym rat. He'll improve.Rudeness and arrogance are in the eye of the beholder, ie utterly subjective. As you confessed only a short time ago, for some reason I set you off. Maybe it's something other than your convenient "rude/arrogant" excuse. Maybe it's the fact that I see the game and understand the game in an almost polar opposite way, as well as life in general. When one's worldview is being threatened a sort of demonization is often the result, just as a coping mechanism. Just look at a certain demographic of this country, both in congress and in in the populace. Food for thought from someone you call moronic, among other insults and attempts at character assassination. Please note that I refrain from similar responses. Randle is a much better player this year than last year, and that is due to being in much better shape and having a great coach. If I have been wrong about anyone it actually is Coach Thibs. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Mar 15, 2021 19:26:22 GMT -5
Dave
I have no fucking clue what your world view is nor do I care. HERE you can be a major jerk. I’m not the only one who feels that way either so drop the world view shit and adjust your attitude.
STILL waiting for the Randle mea culpa. In truth herein lies the real issue with you and me. Accountability for your opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2021 22:59:19 GMT -5
I gave you a promotion to moron? I must have missed that one. Seriously I argued vociferously with anybody and everybody on Randle. You were just ruder and more arrogant about it which is why I still await your mea culpas on Randle even last year when he led the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Just like this year. Coaching has certainly helped him become the toast of New York but character factors in too and that just didn't develop over the summer. In fact given the criticism he got last year it's a sign of his character that he worked harder and longer to improve.
As for Obi EVERYBODY here said he was a PF. I alone said he was a hybrid forward and he still can be. When you watch the games you see hints and signs of an offensive precociousness we saw last year in RJ Barrett. Plus at 220+ lbs he's hardly a shrinking violet. Four years at Dayton hardly prepares one for the NBA but give the kid time. He's got skills and he's got the physical gifts that need to be crafted some. Like IQ the kid is a gym rat. He'll improve. Rudeness and arrogance are in the eye of the beholder, ie utterly subjective. As you confessed only a short time ago, for some reason I set you off. Maybe it's something other than your convenient "rude/arrogant" excuse. Maybe it's the fact that I see the game and understand the game in an almost polar opposite way, as well as life in general. When one's worldview is being threatened a sort of demonization is often the result, just as a coping mechanism. Just look at a certain demographic of this country, both in congress and in in the populace. Food for thought from someone you call moronic, among other insults and attempts at character assassination. Please note that I refrain from similar responses. Randle is a much better player this year than last year, and that is due to being in much better shape and having a great coach. If I have been wrong about anyone it actually is Coach Thibs.  ?? Wow that is quite a reach. I doubt your differences of opinion come within light years of threatening someone's worldview. Bout as likely as a more valuable side kick SPOCK or TONTO discussion indicates whether clubs are more valuable than spades. |
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Post by trendsetta on Mar 16, 2021 8:18:07 GMT -5
Dave I have no fucking clue what your world view is nor do I care. HERE you can be a major jerk. I’m not the only one who feels that way either so drop the world view shit and adjust your attitude. STILL waiting for the Randle mea culpa. In truth herein lies the real issue with you and me. Accountability for your opinions. Thanks for the civil response, Bill. It's too bad you feel that way. Everyone, however, is entitled to hearing your opinion, however misguided or ill-informed, or the opposite of those. |
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Post by trendsetta on Mar 16, 2021 8:43:26 GMT -5
Rudeness and arrogance are in the eye of the beholder, ie utterly subjective. As you confessed only a short time ago, for some reason I set you off. Maybe it's something other than your convenient "rude/arrogant" excuse. Maybe it's the fact that I see the game and understand the game in an almost polar opposite way, as well as life in general. When one's worldview is being threatened a sort of demonization is often the result, just as a coping mechanism. Just look at a certain demographic of this country, both in congress and in in the populace. Food for thought from someone you call moronic, among other insults and attempts at character assassination. Please note that I refrain from similar responses. Randle is a much better player this year than last year, and that is due to being in much better shape and having a great coach. If I have been wrong about anyone it actually is Coach Thibs. I don't think it's a reach. The game is important to us because of the maxim "basketball is life." In my opinion a strong case can be made for seeing that the way we approach the game-- when we play it, the way we see the game, and the things we value about the game, its teams, and its players vis a vis their teams, etc. etc.-- that approach will quite often reflect who we are as men and women so far as values. At the root of it all is probably the manifestation of ubuntu. Obviously this perspective transcends fanhood, which by definition is irrational and focused on entertainment (individual exploits) more than the life lessons (teamwork and making others better) the game can convey. By contrast, you are a student of the game, which is not that common. Doesn't hurt that you're a gentleman, too. Obviously we can be both fans and students. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Mar 17, 2021 12:07:39 GMT -5
Dave I have no fucking clue what your world view is nor do I care. HERE you can be a major jerk. I’m not the only one who feels that way either so drop the world view shit and adjust your attitude. STILL waiting for the Randle mea culpa. In truth herein lies the real issue with you and me. Accountability for your opinions. Thanks for the civil response, Bill. It's too bad you feel that way. Everyone, however, is entitled to hearing your opinion, however misguided or ill-informed, or the opposite of those.
I DO feel that way. I wish I didn't but until I see some real humility and respect from you I suspect the animosity between us will only get worse BECAUSE I believe everyone is entitled to express their opinions. Of course with that basic right comes the right to comment on those opinions. I haven't banned you though I could so any argument that somehow I want to restrict free speech here is ridiculous. Say what you want but so will I.
STILL waiting on the mea culpa for Randle and also what your idea of what my world view might be. Because I religiously avoid political discussion here it might be amusing to find out what you think my world view is though basketball is not part of it. Basketball, and by extension this message board, is where I go to escape a largely depressing and deteriorating world situation. |
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Post by trendsetta on Mar 17, 2021 17:56:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the civil response, Bill. It's too bad you feel that way. Everyone, however, is entitled to hearing your opinion, however misguided or ill-informed, or the opposite of those.
I DO feel that way. I wish I didn't but until I see some real humility and respect from you I suspect the animosity between us will only get worse BECAUSE I believe everyone is entitled to express their opinions. Of course with that basic right comes the right to comment on those opinions. I haven't banned you though I could so any argument that somehow I want to restrict free speech here is ridiculous. Say what you want but so will I.
STILL waiting on the mea culpa for Randle and also what your idea of what my world view might be. Because I religiously avoid political discussion here it might be amusing to find out what you think my world view is though basketball is not part of it. Basketball, and by extension this message board, is where I go to escape a largely depressing and deteriorating world situation. Bill I am not a humble man. Not only is it not in my nature but I have endured and overcome way too much adversity to be otherwise. I have been thrust into leadership roles as far back as early youth and I cannot hide my light under a bushel. Why should I? I understand that this comes across to you as arrogance or worse, even perhaps far worse to you and a number of others around here. It is what it is. But insofar as *humility* is related to *respect*, I am in fact a very respectful person-- freely acknowledging, praising, and thanking others for educating me, for this is what studying Socrates has taught me. I have stated this or something similar over the years of being here but I am compelled to say it yet again. I am always looking to improve and thusly change and evolve. This could be acknowledged by you, though by now the well of goodwill for you has been poisoned and I suspect beyond recovery. Regardless of how accurate this is, participating here to me means non-hostile and sincere dialogue in pursuit of truth while making the supreme effort to remain clinical and objective, but most of all in the spirit of willingness to be persuaded. I have a love of learning and celebrate when I am in the presence of others who clearly have something to teach me, but there's a certain art and skill to it, and diplomacy/peacemaking is something of a plus. Bill in all seriousness: If it would make it easier for you or make you happy I will close my account and cease participating here-- precluding the need to ban me. Would you like to go that route? I doubt you will lose face... in fact it is likely that you would not be the only one to be relieved to *not* have me around among the 10 (or so) consistent participants here. Most of those posters will not miss me at all, of that I am certain. If not, it would be nice to remain posting here as an outlet for my perspectives and the occasional camaraderie... but I think it's fair to ask that if you *do* in fact decide to allow me to remain (you have all the power on this website ultimately), that we steer clear of one another as best we can going forward. I have asked this of you before (as there's no ignore option on this platform), but in the past you were adamant in your refusal to do so. Maybe now you are persuaded by me to do so? |
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Post by irish2u2 on Mar 17, 2021 22:55:10 GMT -5
Dave
I DO feel that way. I wish I didn't but until I see some real humility and respect from you I suspect the animosity between us will only get worse BECAUSE I believe everyone is entitled to express their opinions. Of course with that basic right comes the right to comment on those opinions. I haven't banned you though I could so any argument that somehow I want to restrict free speech here is ridiculous. Say what you want but so will I.
STILL waiting on the mea culpa for Randle and also what your idea of what my world view might be. Because I religiously avoid political discussion here it might be amusing to find out what you think my world view is though basketball is not part of it. Basketball, and by extension this message board, is where I go to escape a largely depressing and deteriorating world situation. Bill I am not a humble man. Not only is it not in my nature but I have endured and overcome way too much adversity to be otherwise. I have been thrust into leadership roles as far back as early youth and I cannot hide my light under a bushel. Why should I? I understand that this comes across to you as arrogance or worse, even perhaps far worse to you and a number of others around here. It is what it is. But insofar as *humility* is related to *respect*, I am in fact a very respectful person-- freely acknowledging, praising, and thanking others for educating me, for this is what studying Socrates has taught me. I have stated this or something similar over the years of being here but I am compelled to say it yet again. I am always looking to improve and thusly change and evolve. This could be acknowledged by you, though by now the well of goodwill for you has been poisoned and I suspect beyond recovery. Regardless of how accurate this is, participating here to me means non-hostile and sincere dialogue in pursuit of truth while making the supreme effort to remain clinical and objective, but most of all in the spirit of willingness to be persuaded. I have a love of learning and celebrate when I am in the presence of others who clearly have something to teach me, but there's a certain art and skill to it, and diplomacy/peacemaking is something of a plus. Bill in all seriousness: If it would make it easier for you or make you happy I will close my account and cease participating here-- precluding the need to ban me. Would you like to go that route? I doubt you will lose face... in fact it is likely that you would not be the only one to be relieved to *not* have me around among the 10 (or so) consistent participants here. Most of those posters will not miss me at all, of that I am certain. If not, it would be nice to remain posting here as an outlet for my perspectives and the occasional camaraderie... but I think it's fair to ask that if you *do* in fact decide to allow me to remain (you have all the power on this website ultimately), that we steer clear of one another as best we can going forward. I have asked this of you before (as there's no ignore option on this platform), but in the past you were adamant in your refusal to do so. Maybe now you are persuaded by me to do so?
I have no wish for you to leave because as stated that's a few keystrokes away. Yet here you are. I only block those who wander here selling stuff we don't want and the occasional asshat who just can't get along here. I don't like you and that is something we agree on but I don't hate you and others here do like you. I don't think anybody wants you gone or I would have received some kind of message. No messages.
As to avoiding each other my response is simple. No can do. You post here and that post, as well as all posts, is subject to discussion. Especially your posts. This is a message board and discussion fuels it. I could suggest a change of direction for you though that might light up your path of enlightenment and save you some bushels.
When your opinions are shown to be in question or just flat out wrong (my not so subtle way of getting back to Julius Randle) you do one of two things without fail. You either double down on your argument using the "if I can't dazzle them with brilliance I will baffle them with bullshit" approach or you change the subject/direction of the discussion. I think your approach is why I dislike you so much because you assume I (and maybe everyone else) am an idiot. I'm not an idiot. When you stop throwing me minor league stuff maybe I'll respect you more. I'm not holding my breath but if you ever can get to the point of doing a mea culpa and admitting you were wrong my opinion might change and the path to enlightenment might have less roadblocks.
Let me add one more thing. You seem to know a lot about narcissism. I think I know why. |
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) Am I wrong about Frank or Fill or our Dave? Please don't tell me it's Fill 
Seriously I argued vociferously with anybody and everybody on Randle. You were just ruder and more arrogant about it which is why I still await your mea culpas on Randle even last year when he led the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. Just like this year. Coaching has certainly helped him become the toast of New York but character factors in too and that just didn't develop over the summer. In fact given the criticism he got last year it's a sign of his character that he worked harder and longer to improve.
?? Wow that is quite a reach. I doubt your differences of opinion come within light years of threatening someone's worldview. Bout as likely as a more valuable side kick SPOCK or TONTO discussion indicates whether clubs are more valuable than spades.