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Post by garyd on Jan 18, 2021 21:12:57 GMT -5
.. and who are the Knicks? they stand at 7-8. 4th in the Atlantic division with the Celtics as the leader (8-4). The Knicks are 2.5 GB. They are 6th in the Eastern Conference behind Milwaukee.
They have beaten Milwaukee, @ Cleveland, @ Indiana, @ Atlanta, Utah, Boston and Orlando. They lost to @indiana, Philadelphia, @toronto, OKC, Denver, Charlotte, Brooklyn, and @ Cleveland. About middle of the pack.
They perform well enough on defense, a mark of Coach Thibodeau and we rank 2nd best of 30 at 104.1 points given up. That's obviously very good. They rank 29th of 30 on Offense at 101.3- bad. Just confirms what we have seen all season to date.
Just looking at where the Knicks players rank in PPG -there's a steady Randle (NBA's 22nd best point maker) and little else with the best support guys being Barrett (50th), Payton (80th), Quickley (140th) and Rivers (148th). We need more consistent point makers. Get some 55 points from 3 players and the wins increase.
One of the ways to this is 3 point shooting. Here by percentages are our best to date: Burks 66.7% (yep - but in a short time record), Ntilikina (55.6%- surprise), Knox (44.2 %), Obi in very short action (41.7%) and Rivers (40.0%). Many of these are missing in action right now.
Actually getting a chance to see Obi makes me feel a little better. Seeing that we are missing the 3 point shooter is partly due to injury. We had to play a tough schedule so far, and now go on the road west where we will face but 1-2 likely wins. Will we see any progress?
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Post by daglazer on Jan 19, 2021 19:41:09 GMT -5
.. and who are the Knicks? they stand at 7-8. 4th in the Atlantic division with the Celtics as the leader (8-4). The Knicks are 2.5 GB. They are 6th in the Eastern Conference behind Milwaukee. They have beaten Milwaukee, @ Cleveland, @ Indiana, @ Atlanta, Utah, Boston and Orlando. They lost to @indiana, Philadelphia, @toronto, OKC, Denver, Charlotte, Brooklyn, and @ Cleveland. About middle of the pack. They perform well enough on defense, a mark of Coach Thibodeau and we rank 2nd best of 30 at 104.1 points given up. That's obviously very good. They rank 29th of 30 on Offense at 101.3- bad. Just confirms what we have seen all season to date. Just looking at where the Knicks players rank in PPG -there's a steady Randle (NBA's 22nd best point maker) and little else with the best support guys being Barrett (50th), Payton (80th), Quickley (140th) and Rivers (148th). We need more consistent point makers. Get some 55 points from 3 players and the wins increase. One of the ways to this is 3 point shooting. Here by percentages are our best to date: Burks 66.7% (yep - but in a short time record), Ntilikina (55.6%- surprise), Knox (44.2 %), Obi in very short action (41.7%) and Rivers (40.0%). Many of these are missing in action right now. Actually getting a chance to see Obi makes me feel a little better. Seeing that we are missing the 3 point shooter is partly due to injury. We had to play a tough schedule so far, and now go on the road west where we will face but 1-2 likely wins. Will we see any progress?
Going into the season, I thought we would be a 29 win team. We are now on a 34 win pace. This season reminds me a little of Pitino's first year. We started to be competitive and learn how to win while Jackson and Ewing developed. This team is starting to understand what it takes to win in the NBA. I expect us to become a truly competitive team next season. We need Burks to get healthy because without him we are a shooter short. But, if Obi and IQ can develop and Knox continues to develop into a reliable 3 point shooter, we will be a team on the rise instead of in a rut.
The sneaky best part is that right now, the Dallas pick is in the lottery!!! We might make the playoffs in the East and Dallas might miss the playoffs in the West. Gotta love that!!
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Post by irish2u2 on Jan 20, 2021 13:59:33 GMT -5
Ok I'm a little shocked about how well the Knicks have been playing though being a top defensive team was a minimum expectation. As long as you play good defense especially on the perimeter you have a decent chance of winning NBA games. Our Knicks also show excellent team first instincts and work habits which is another signature of a Tom Thibodeau team.
Obviously Randle is playing great basketball but he has been the only consistent offensive weapon on the team. Getting back Alec Burks helps a lot and certainly RJ Barrett is playing solid aggressive basketball though his shooting remains inconsistent. There are other positives but also a couple of huge questions aside fro the lack of a consistent scorer to go with Randle.
What’s up with Payton and Mitch? Payton goes from horrible to indispensable on an almost nightly basis. He was wonderful against Orlando and basically kept Quickly to what amounts to a guest appearance against the Magic. Let me tell you the Orlando announcers LOVE IQ.  Right now Austin Rivers is getting backup minutes at both guard positions but that ends a bit when Burks is able to play. I fully expected Payton to ride the pine but he keeps following one bad game with multiple good games. Rivers is going to play but either IQ or Payton sits and we all know how Tom values his veteran players. Of course this is a GOOD problem to have when you have multiple players deserving of PT.
Then there is Mitch. While RJ has shown a significant improvement in his play Mitch’s only area of improvement is he stays mostly out of foul trouble. Which is good but watching Mitch get destroyed by Andre Drummond and Nikola Vucevic is unsettling. He needs to get stronger and develop some more muscle mass. I keep wondering if the Bulls would put Wendell Carter on the trading block as he at least can get into a big center like Drummond or the Lopez brothers. I really thought Mitch would be a star. Now I’m not so sure. Now I’m not so adamant Mitch is an untouchable in trade discussions.
So what we have is a team with some talent and a decent chance of winning games depending on shooting because they play excellent defense. Right now I’m a little more optimistic of the Knicks future because they do play good defense. Now we need some scorers!! Personally I’d rather draft a star than trade for one or get one through free agency but whichever way the Knicks do it I think they are inching closer to playoff contention. I really, really wish the Knicks would have signed Christian Wood in free agency. He is tearing things up for Houston. But we didn’t and free agency next summer doesn’t look all that promising and I hate trades so the Knicks look more likely to build through the draft.
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Post by garyd on Jan 20, 2021 16:50:01 GMT -5
I agree Bill. We need 3 consistent scorers. And at east 1 consistent 3 point scorer. As you say we absolutely get whacked inside with our two thin centers. That's a problem. Taj can hold his own for a while before fouling out against strong centers.
Payton is our best PG distributor and Quickley our best PG scorer. Maybe play them together some times.
Obi will work his way into the rotation eventually.
I thought playing Golden State would be OK, and now they just beat the Lakers. Maybe Sacramento is the only near sure thing on this 4 game road trip. If they are 2-2 I'm happy.
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Post by daglazer on Jan 21, 2021 17:23:48 GMT -5
Bill, don't worry too much about Mitch. He is learning how to play without fouling. Once he figures that out, he will be able to learn how to play more aggressively and be better for it. Sometimes when a player is working on a skill, some of the other parts drop off a little. I suspect that is what is going on with Mitch. The reality is that Mitch is 7% better than the average big man at protecting the rim. a real bruiser like Drummond is always going to give Mitch some problems, but very few teams have that kind of player.
IMHO, I would not mind having Randle bang bodies with the bruisers and let Mitch chase the PF's around on those nights. Also, once Taj Gibson gets in shape he can play some minutes against the bruisers to give Mitch a little break. Remember, we are the #1 defense because we have centers like Mitch and Noel who can erase drives to the basket which lets our wings play aggressively at the 3 point line.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jan 21, 2021 19:30:43 GMT -5
Great points Dave.
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Post by garyd on Jan 21, 2021 21:06:18 GMT -5
Dave, I wish I had your view on Robinson. He can handle the average center but Drummond and Sabonis showed what a big and strong guy can do to him. I wish the Knicks had one big weighty center for those guys.
On this trip he will face guys like Utah's Rudy Gobert and Portland's Nurcic. It will be interesting how he handles them.
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jan 22, 2021 1:27:57 GMT -5
Dave, I wish I had your view on Robinson. He can handle the average center but Drummond and Sabonis showed what a big and strong guy can do to him. I wish the Knicks had one big weighty center for those guys. On this trip he will face guys like Utah's Rudy Gobert and Portland's Nurcic. It will be interesting how he handles them. Nurkic is out with a fracture and we beat Utah already so we can do it again, if the whistles are fair. Mitchell is about a light year better than Nerlens Noel, and he has gotten a little beefier. However if Mitch gets too heavy he might not be as useful with the great thing he does do well. He still looked better in some ways than Wiseman tonight. Wiseman obvious has a spin move Mitch doesn't have and can or will hit a mid range but Mitch does almost everything else better, for now anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 2:19:54 GMT -5
Dave, I wish I had your view on Robinson. He can handle the average center but Drummond and Sabonis showed what a big and strong guy can do to him. I wish the Knicks had one big weighty center for those guys. On this trip he will face guys like Utah's Rudy Gobert and Portland's Nurcic. It will be interesting how he handles them. Nurkic is out with a fracture and we beat Utah already so we can do it again, if the whistles are fair. Mitchell is about a light year better than Nerlens Noel, and he has gotten a little beefier. However if Mitch gets too heavy he might not be as useful with the great thing he does do well. He still looked better in some ways than Wiseman tonight. Wiseman obvious has a spin move Mitch doesn't have and can or will hit a mid range but Mitch does almost everything else better, for now anyway. i'm happy to have Mitch but I think Wiseman is better and has more upside. |
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Post by daglazer on Jan 22, 2021 11:31:42 GMT -5
Nurkic is out with a fracture and we beat Utah already so we can do it again, if the whistles are fair. Mitchell is about a light year better than Nerlens Noel, and he has gotten a little beefier. However if Mitch gets too heavy he might not be as useful with the great thing he does do well. He still looked better in some ways than Wiseman tonight. Wiseman obvious has a spin move Mitch doesn't have and can or will hit a mid range but Mitch does almost everything else better, for now anyway. i'm happy to have Mitch but I think Wiseman is better and has more upside.
Mitch is better right now, especially defensively, but Wiseman definitely has more upside. |
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Post by garyd on Jan 22, 2021 15:37:35 GMT -5
I like Mitch a lot. He is that great asset of being a rim man with huge wingspan and hops that can get you plus points on either basket. I think that matchups are critical in games and that one bruiser against opponents that live in the key is a missing piece, not critical at this point.
We have improved enormously on defense. Comparing last year and this year numbers we actually regressed a bit in offense on ppg (4 points per game) and steals but have improved on FT % (up 5.4%) and blocks. And the passing is obviously better, and so is 3 point shooting.
And as mentioned for the most part this team doesnt give up because there isn't a tremendous drop-off in 3 of the positions. Randall and Barrett are critical and that's why these guys are playing big minutes- that can bite us later. But the development of Obi Topin might lessen that.
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Jan 26, 2021 12:33:02 GMT -5
Payton is driving us nuts,he looks like awesome than he goes back to shooting bricks.His defense is solid and you can't take that away the way he hounded Curry was a masterfull job on dee.Even though he drives me nuts I really do like him as a player.He trys hard and is a huge part of our defensive ranking.
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Right now Austin Rivers is getting backup minutes at both guard positions but that ends a bit when Burks is able to play. I fully expected Payton to ride the pine but he keeps following one bad game with multiple good games. Rivers is going to play but either IQ or Payton sits and we all know how Tom values his veteran players. Of course this is a GOOD problem to have when you have multiple players deserving of PT.
