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Post by jbnewyork162 on Dec 16, 2020 23:36:39 GMT -5
I really like Quickley and his chemistry with pretty much that last group who came from behind and won.
Mitch, RJ, Knox, Toppin.
We need more of that lineup. AND more cowbell
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 7:10:18 GMT -5
I really like Quickley and his chemistry with pretty much that last group who came from behind and won. Mitch, RJ, Knox, Toppin. We need more of that lineup. AND more cowbell Da Babys did look good. Agree about Quickley. It was nice to see Smith and Knox work hard on defense, even if was against future phys ed teachers and accountants |
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Post by rxmeister on Dec 17, 2020 7:52:13 GMT -5
I’m going to very quietly point out that both of our wins were accomplished against teams sitting their best players down the stretch, but yeah that was fun to watch. I was so excited for the start of basketball and earlier in the game I was watching Payton, Randle, (who actually started out good then reverted) and Bullock, and thinking to myself how dreary this season will be and then the kids came in and made it exciting. I do expect the veterans to still get the bulk of the playing time, unfortunately, but hopefully Rivers returns shortly and they at least get Payton out of there. You just can’t have such a lousy shooter running your team. You can’t penetrate and make things happen if your defender is ten feet off if of you daring you to shoot.
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Post by garyd on Dec 17, 2020 15:13:25 GMT -5
Some takes from the preseason games so far....
This was about two teams close to the bottom in season predictions, that have similar strengths and weaknesses.
The Cleveland team has one good player in Drummond and in reality NYK had but Randle. I know that Randle is not a favorite but without him there are no sure points on this Knicks team. Missing players were Cavs: Love, Sexton, K Porter Jr, and Dellavedova. Missing for the Knicks were Rivers, Ntilikina, Burks and Noel. With the near end of the short Pre-season the game was managed loosely.
Decent opening half bad Q3 and amazing comeback in Q4 from 15 down to 7 ahead. The reason was, we are talking Thibodeau here, defense.
Randle, and Barrett (really looks improved) and starter Mitchell ('Wingspan man') Robinson teetered with 5 PFs but had a very good overall game (13 pts, 10Reb, 4 Blks. The D in Q4 was great as was especially the 3 pt. shots of Smith and Knox (combined 5-9) and ATO of the 3 'PG's: Payton and Quickley (each 7 assists and 2 TO's) and Smith (4 assist, 2 TOs and 5 steals!).
Decent game with not much about Topin revealed so far.
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Post by irish2u2 on Dec 18, 2020 14:52:16 GMT -5
To echo Mark we saw two bad teams playing this game and the only definitive conclusion you might reach is our scrubs are better than their scrubs.  Still a lineup with the 22 year old Obi Toppin as the oldest of the group is interesting. Maybe just not this year.
I loved the energy of the youngsters. They made lots of mistakes but their effort, athleticism and enthusiasm was notable. And maybe contagious as all over Knickdom comes the question of whether or not Immanuel Quickley can be our PG of the future.
I think with a little patience the answer is “Yes!!” But it’s going to take time. Certainly Quickley brought energy to the floor and he sees the court well. We all know he is a shooter so with better shot selection he is going to score more though he has to learn to take it hard to the hoop. A 90%+ foul shooter needs to get to the free throw line more. The handle has to improve and his defense was poor often getting beat off the bounce by the Cavs guards. We as fans need to be objective. I like Immanuel and he’s an excellent shooter but he is not uber athletic and he’s not particularly skilled outside shooting. He also needs to add a bit of muscle. On the plus side he has a 6’9 wingspan and better than average quickness. On the negative side his ballhandling is below par for a NBA PG.
The kid can be better and he can be an effective NBA PG. He’s smart and he works hard which are the two main attributes he needs to be a team leader. I also liked the synergy between Quickley and Toppin.
Some other observations...
DSJ looked better especially on defense. I’m growing fonder of a two headed PG approach with Quickley and DSJ. I think it interesting that a rumor is circulating that DSJ may have some back issues and that seems plausible since rarely have we seen the explosiveness DSJ demonstrated in Dallas. If that is what is holding DSJ back and it can be rectified his future gets a little brighter.
Another so called draft bust is Kevin Knox. Against Cleveland we all saw what Knox can be as he scored much needed and appreciated perimeter points, made some nice passes and played effective defense. It feels like he’s been a Knick forever but it’s just his 3rd year and he is only 21 years old. I think the old saying don’t throw the baby out with the bath water applies here.
I’m on the fence with Mitchell Robinson. He keeps making the same silly fouls but then he does things that are special. There is thought he is a bit flaky and not happy about his contract. I’m not happy with the silly fouls.
Like Quickley it seems Obi Toppin shows flashes at one end of the court while getting burned at the other. But he’s a rookie and it takes time. Maybe that’s the theme this season. It will take time and it will be a long season in certain respects but this is a very young basketball team and I have to say there has been marked improvement in RJ Barrett’s game that makes me a little more hopeful he has star power. That we develop our own stars is vital because the best superstar types keep signing extensions with their current teams. I thought maybe the Knicks had a shot at AD because of all the Kentucky connections but I always believed Giannis would stay in Milwaukee. Which is good for the NBA and good for the fans of the Bucks.
The Knicks were awful against the Cavaliers shooting and defending the trey. I expect the defense to improve though it may seem glacial improvement at times. The shooting is troublesome. I think it gets helped a little when Quickley starts taking good shots with the proper shot selection and form. He has been rushing shots and his balance is all over the place. RJ has to start hitting perimeter shots as part of his next step up the star ladder. Three point shooting is the Achille’s Heel of this Knicks team. If they can’t spread the court it’s going to make it tougher for guys to drive and specifically it will make it tougher on Randle because he is always going to get that weak side help defense when he spins into the paint resulting in turnovers.
So let’s talk about Randle. He never should be the #1 offensive option on a team. Maybe not even #2 so when you criticize him keep in mind his role isn’t what it should be. He’s got an effective offensive game predicated on a good midrange jumper and very effective play in the post. He’s a below the rim player and while the league keeps moving towards a position less format with athletes all over the place there is still a place for a guy who can get you 20 and 10 and shoot better than 50% from the floor. Randle is not a plodding and slow player. He gets up and down the court rather effectively but until the Knicks develop star players and a 3 point game fans will be more fixated on the Randle negatives than his positives.That said Randle is trade bait and unlike some doofus on FB who wants to cut him Randle has value. For the right team. I still don’t get it how Knicks fans can be so negative about Julius and not as negative when Robinson goes for another head fake. SMH.
We won’t see him tonight but I’m curious what Austin Rivers brings to the mix. Certainly he is a better PG choice than DSJ and he can shoot. In fact he will have a green light to shoot which should make Austin very happy.
It wont seem like a long season to me if there is improvement individually amongst certain players. I think the Knicks “core” is Robinson, RJ, Knox, Obi, Quickly (those guys maybe our starting five down the road a bit) and Frank. Maybe we should add Noel who is just 26 and whoever we might eventually get for Randle though I for one would not be distressed at him being part of the core. I’m on ledge about DSJ but as much as I like Payton his shooting kills us and at least DSJ is an above average defender.
Now here is another question. How will Tom Thibodeau react to a young, losing team? Already we have seen his approach in the preseason as he really wants to win games.What happens when he loses a bunch? I think the team and management are behind him but Thibs does not like losing and he’s going to lose a lot here.
All in all I loved the 18 point comeback with the young guys against Cleveland. But I temper that enthusiasm by imagining these Knicks against Boston. Philly. The dreaded Nets not to mention all those Western Conference powerhouses. Fortunately for me I am well stocked with Jamisons to take the edge off the uglier of Knicks games.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 15:18:56 GMT -5
I’m going to very quietly point out that both of our wins were accomplished against teams sitting their best players down the stretch, but yeah that was fun to watch. I was so excited for the start of basketball and earlier in the game I was watching Payton, Randle, (who actually started out good then reverted) and Bullock, and thinking to myself how dreary this season will be and then the kids came in and made it exciting. I do expect the veterans to still get the bulk of the playing time, unfortunately, but hopefully Rivers returns shortly and they at least get Payton out of there. You just can’t have such a lousy shooter running your team. You can’t penetrate and make things happen if your defender is ten feet off if of you daring you to shoot. |
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Dec 18, 2020 15:43:26 GMT -5
Robinson, RJ, Knox, Obi, Quickly should be our starters.Bill, Mitch was going against one of the strongest center in league and is still young with alot to learn ,some of those fouls were BS too.I think Mitch is so much better than Noel,Noel can't do the ally oop like Mitch who is special in that area.Mitch has great hands,Noel is a bit weak in getting the ball.Mitch is a bit doofy but he's not a bad kid ,hopefully he doesn't get some bad advise in his ear ,but he does seem smart even if loafy at times.I do think this coaching staff will take him to another level so maybe we should approach an extension now to get him cheaper.
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Post by daglazer on Dec 18, 2020 18:51:07 GMT -5
My hope for Quickley is that he becomes a better Charlie Ward type point guard. Good defense, secure ball handling, and someone who can knock down an open shot. Ward was not a great creator, but he did not make a lot of mistakes and was tough as nails on defense. He was also a good enough shooter that he could not be left open.
Quickley is a better natural shooter than Ward. I can easily envision a nice two-man game with Obi and setting up for kick outs from RJ.
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Still a lineup with the 22 year old Obi Toppin as the oldest of the group is interesting. Maybe just not this year. 
