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Post by jbnewyork162 on Nov 23, 2020 10:04:14 GMT -5
Meh. Very meh. He's a defensive sieve and not good shooting the three but he can initiate an offense in a pinch. I don't confuse a tough guy pose with effectiveness. Oh well there's always trade fodder on the Knicks it seems. The Nerlens Noel pickup was great though, what with Mitch often in foul trouble. He shot 37% from three the last 3 years. And 47% from corner three last season. Thats not nothing. And he signed for 3.3 mil a year with the last two year non guaranteed so we can waive him next summer with basically no cap hit. We agree to disagree on the definition of meh but again you are entitled to your opinion sir. |
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 23, 2020 11:41:32 GMT -5
Ian Begley is now reporting that the Knicks also sent some cash in the Davis deal
and received yet another second round pick! So the Ed Davis deals actually netted them FOUR second round picks!
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Post by axios on Nov 23, 2020 12:56:27 GMT -5
Was never a fan of him. Has his shot gotten better? Ill root for him, but he's not my cup of tea.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 14:55:26 GMT -5
Meh. Very meh. He's a defensive sieve and not good shooting the three but he can initiate an offense in a pinch. I don't confuse a tough guy pose with effectiveness. Oh well there's always trade fodder on the Knicks it seems. The Nerlens Noel pickup was great though, what with Mitch often in foul trouble. I feel the opposite. I saw noel have a few of the worst minutes that I saw all season. On defense. His decision making judgements were terrible. Only 1 game but it was Whiteside esque in judgement. Unfortunately I watch a lot of Rockets' games. Rooting against Harden's 6 steps rhumbas and Dantoni was a guilty pleasure. Ill choose my eyes in this case over numbers. I like the Rivers acquisition.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 15:16:28 GMT -5
Knicks need to stop testing the limits of Trend’s fandom with these signings. Good on Noel though for getting the seal of approval! I love the signing. Dude can put the ball in the basket. Three for ten is a bargain and two years of team options? Between this and receiving two picks for taking Ed Davis and then another for getting rid of Ed Davis, I’m starting to think Leon Rose might just be if not a wizard then at least the right man to fix the Knicks. Imagine if he had signed Melo and Hayward and traded for Westbrook or Paul and thrown in picks. Sure the Knicks would have won more games, but they would have had no future. Now they’ve improved and maintained flexibility. The improvement might be enough to make good players sit up and take notice when they reach free agency. If you then add them and top draft picks while still maintaining flexibility then the elite players will start to think about coming here. It’s a tough job but Rose and company look up to the task. As for this offseason’s top free agents? I wanted some of them right up to the point where I saw what they wound up signing for. A lot of these teams that made big signings just weren’t good enough to do so, and those signings will come back and haunt them. Michael Jordan greatest player ever, worst executive ever! Imagine making a monumental error of overpaying Batum and then having to waive and stretch his contract to make the room for a player you’ll have the same regrets over in two years? Learn from your mistakes! To be fair to Jordan, ( I hate even the concept of being fair to Jordan) no one very good will go to Charlotte as their first or second choice unless you grew up there. No one wanted to go to Clevelend when Lebron was there. But players take half their worth to play with him in LA. BUT NY MAY well be different (from a Charlotte or Cleveland or Milwaukee) EVEN WITH DOH-LAN in charge. You don't want to overpay. It will haunt you in time. Keep getting easily tradable 5 million dollar players, acquire multiple draft picks, Then strike for the right guy(s) when the time is right.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 15:18:34 GMT -5
"With the 17th thru the 43 picks in the 2023 NBA draft the knicks will choose the following 27 players"
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Nov 23, 2020 15:19:21 GMT -5
"With the 17th thru the 43 picks in the 2023 NBA draft the knicks will choose the following 27 players" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by trendsetta on Nov 24, 2020 17:25:41 GMT -5
Meh. Very meh. He's a defensive sieve and not good shooting the three but he can initiate an offense in a pinch. I don't confuse a tough guy pose with effectiveness. Oh well there's always trade fodder on the Knicks it seems. The Nerlens Noel pickup was great though, what with Mitch often in foul trouble. He shot 37% from three the last 3 years. And 47% from corner three last season. Thats not nothing. And he signed for 3.3 mil a year with the last two year non guaranteed so we can waive him next summer with basically no cap hit. We agree to disagree on the definition of meh but again you are entitled to your opinion sir. Jason I checked bballref www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/riverau01.html and his average the last 3 seasons is 32.9% from 3. Corner 3s are 36.3%. Barely acceptable. In DRPM www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/1 he ranks 52nd among point guards off the bench (<24mpg), and 87th overall. Only DSJ is worse on the Knicks. That said, I will root for him if only because I have fond memories of his Dad playing for us, as well as his Dad's Ubuntu Celtics of 2008. Good on Rose for that contract too! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 20:03:47 GMT -5
Does DRPM claim Kanter is better than Mitch?
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Post by irish2u2 on Nov 24, 2020 21:01:31 GMT -5
Does DRPM claim Kanter is better than Mitch? Amongst centers Nerlens Noel is 24th, Enes Kanter is 26th and Mitchell Robinson is 47th. 😎😎😎 I know the algorithm for DRPM. STOOPID squared. 😎😎😎 There are certain things that can be definitively measured. Aspects of defense can be definitively measured. Not defense as a whole. Way too many factors. Way too many variables. How many times have y’all seen absolutely text book defense and the offensive player still scored?? Is that a defensive failure? Not in my book. |
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Post by trendsetta on Nov 24, 2020 23:12:40 GMT -5
Does DRPM claim Kanter is better than Mitch? That's a rhetorical question Gates but perhaps a misinformed one... so an explanation/clarification is in order. Insofar as defense is a team effort, the better that team is on defense collectively the better each player will be in this metric. What were Kanter's numbers on our shitty Knicks squad when he was here as opposed to when he was in Boston? That too is a rhetorical question, one which I hope makes my point clearer. Hence the the worse the team is defensively as a collective the more each player's numbers in this metric will likely suffer. KP's numbers suffered when he was a Knick. On a better defensive team he could have been a defensive player of the year candidate but he was drafted by the Knicks and had to play alongside defensive bums during his tenure here. Another factor you must consider is the number of minutes a player is on the floor. It was patently clear that, as a Knick, that Kanter was not worth the money he was earning given the minutes he was allotted. In Boston this last season he was limited to 16-17 minutes a game... used very strategically/situationally to minimize the negative effect he has on defense. (I'll always admire his offensive rebounds and putbacks though.) As a Knick Kanter was awarded way too many minutes-- 24-28mpg-- and the Knicks suffered as a result. A coach must find the right balance to minimize the negative impact of incomplete and deeply flawed players like Kanter while maximizing their effectiveness in their particular narrow areas of skill. We saw this very clearly with the Boston coach. As we both know and understand from the team perspective vis a vis a synergistic collective of individuals, it is always a challenge to find the right balance within these metrics/advanced stats, specifically between an absolute vacuum and within divergent and varying contexts. As for the eye test, I doubt you will disagree that Mitch's floor impact on defense is light years greater than Kanter's. And when KP is healthy his defensive floor impact is quite impressive too. When Mitch learns Russell's secret, ie "perceived threat" he will be able to stay on the floor longer because he won't commit fouls. I look forward to Thibs showing Mitch Bill Russell highlights and giving Mitch some of Russell's books to read. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 10:59:09 GMT -5
Does DRPM claim Kanter is better than Mitch? That's a rhetorical question Gates but perhaps a misinformed one... so an explanation/clarification is in order. Insofar as defense is a team effort, the better that team is on defense collectively the better each player will be in this metric. What were Kanter's numbers on our shitty Knicks squad when he was here as opposed to when he was in Boston? That too is a rhetorical question, one which I hope makes my point clearer. Hence the the worse the team is defensively as a collective the more each player's numbers in this metric will likely suffer. KP's numbers suffered when he was a Knick. On a better defensive team he could have been a defensive player of the year candidate but he was drafted by the Knicks and had to play alongside defensive bums during his tenure here. Another factor you must consider is the number of minutes a player is on the floor. It was patently clear that, as a Knick, that Kanter was not worth the money he was earning given the minutes he was allotted. In Boston this last season he was limited to 16-17 minutes a game... used very strategically/situationally to minimize the negative effect he has on defense. (I'll always admire his offensive rebounds and putbacks though.) As a Knick Kanter was awarded way too many minutes-- 24-28mpg-- and the Knicks suffered as a result. A coach must find the right balance to minimize the negative impact of incomplete and deeply flawed players like Kanter while maximizing their effectiveness in their particular narrow areas of skill. We saw this very clearly with the Boston coach. As we both know and understand from the team perspective vis a vis a synergistic collective of individuals, it is always a challenge to find the right balance within these metrics/advanced stats, specifically between an absolute vacuum and within divergent and varying contexts. As for the eye test, I doubt you will disagree that Mitch's floor impact on defense is light years greater than Kanter's. And when KP is healthy his defensive floor impact is quite impressive too. When Mitch learns Russell's secret, ie "perceived threat" he will be able to stay on the floor longer because he won't commit fouls. I look forward to Thibs showing Mitch Bill Russell highlights and giving Mitch some of Russell's books to read. Thank you for such a high level answer. I agree with virtually all of it. But because of the limits you mention I always have a difficult time when you seemingly use DRPM as an absolute. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Nov 25, 2020 12:01:20 GMT -5
Pretty good post especially about defense being a team effort. Totally agree except you kinda defeat your own argument about the importance of DRPM. 😎 Pick a side. 😎 Defense is a team effort where outstanding individual performance can get lost by poor team play.
Where you lost me is where you think Porziingis is a DPOY candidate. Since you don’t watch games let me help you. EVERYBODY beats KP off the bounce. 😎😎 KP does get a lot of blocks but generally they come after he gets beat and he uses his length to make up for his high center of gravity and pedestrian lateral ability. He does use his length well but any big who gets pushed around by guards is not DPOY material. 😎
EDIT: What exactly does Mitchell Robinson have to do with Bill Russell? All due credit to Russell as one of the games pillars but he played in a different era. Different rules. Different level of competition. I imagine Mitch could learn a lot from Russell’s approach to the game but off the top of my head I can think of a dozen CURRENT players Mitch could learn the same lesson from only they are relatable.
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Post by trendsetta on Nov 25, 2020 17:39:01 GMT -5
Does DRPM claim Kanter is better than Mitch? Amongst centers Nerlens Noel is 24th, Enes Kanter is 26th and Mitchell Robinson is 47th. 😎😎😎 I know the algorithm for DRPM. STOOPID squared. 😎😎😎 There are certain things that can be definitively measured. Aspects of defense can be definitively measured. Not defense as a whole. Way too many factors. Way too many variables. How many times have y’all seen absolutely text book defense and the offensive player still scored?? Is that a defensive failure? Not in my book. Nerlens Noel plays merely 17MPG for OKC, a team whose defensive rating-- a stat from NBA.com (not ESPN) that you have used in your analysis IIRC www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=W&dir=-1 -- is ranked 8th, while Kanter also plays 17MPG and Boston is ranked 5th in defensive efficiency. Mitch is at 23MPG and the Knicks are ranked 25th. I include team defensive rating because it provides a little context for the numbers and ranking of DRPM. Better team defense will boost numbers of individuals, and vice versa. You say you "know" the algorithm for DRPM, ie A "Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions." Seems like the definition, even with the provisional "estimated" qualifier, is simply stating that defense is measurable after a fashion, and I am attempting here to provide more context to better gauge the value of DRPM. By the way, I am pretty sure that the algorithm for defensive efficiency and DRPM are quite congruent. Sorry if it (or perhaps you meant me) strikes you as stoopid. I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, surrounded by loved ones, with plenty of Brussels sprouts, sweet potatoes, and pumpkin pie. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Nov 25, 2020 18:35:20 GMT -5
Amongst centers Nerlens Noel is 24th, Enes Kanter is 26th and Mitchell Robinson is 47th. 😎😎😎 I know the algorithm for DRPM. STOOPID squared. 😎😎😎 There are certain things that can be definitively measured. Aspects of defense can be definitively measured. Not defense as a whole. Way too many factors. Way too many variables. How many times have y’all seen absolutely text book defense and the offensive player still scored?? Is that a defensive failure? Not in my book. Nerlens Noel plays merely 17MPG for OKC, a team whose defensive rating-- a stat from NBA.com (not ESPN) that you have used in your analysis IIRC www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=W&dir=-1 -- is ranked 8th, while Kanter also plays 17MPG and Boston is ranked 5th in defensive efficiency. Mitch is at 23MPG and the Knicks are ranked 25th. I include team defensive rating because it provides a little context for the numbers and ranking of DRPM. Better team defense will boost numbers of individuals, and vice versa. You say you "know" the algorithm for DRPM, ie A "Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions." Seems like the definition, even with the provisional "estimated" qualifier, is simply stating that defense is measurable after a fashion, and I am attempting here to provide more context to better gauge the value of DRPM. By the way, I am pretty sure that the algorithm for defensive efficiency and DRPM are quite congruent. Sorry if it (or perhaps you meant me) strikes you as stoopid. I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, surrounded by loved ones, with plenty of Brussels sprouts, sweet potatoes, and pumpkin pie. First of all Happy Thanksgiving to you too. Negatory on sweet potatoes but a huge roger dodger on Brussels Sprouts. Love them!!!♥️ We have had this discussion on defense before and you very eloquently made my point. Defense is a team endeavor and no algorithm on earth can factor in poor decision making, blown assignments and poor effort. Again, as an individual defender you can do everything you are supposed to do and your man still scores because of a teammate’s failure to execute, lack of effort or just because good offense beats good defense. |
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