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Post by babylon5 on Jun 18, 2015 17:35:21 GMT -5
Preface:
I apologize is my rant offends anyone, but damn!
I am so sick and tired of watching the news and seeing African-American bodies pile up and, worse, to see Fox News and many Right-wing pundits and politician try and White-plain it away. The horrible incident which took place in South Carolina was a clear example of racially inspired domestic terrorism. The sick animal who entered the church and shot unarmed church goers was, in his words, an attempt to start a race war. He stated that he was tired of "these people" raping our women and taking over the country.
Meanwhile, the idiots at Fox News, the faux news agency which blow its racist dog whistle every chance it gets, tried to take hold of the narrative and say that it wasn't a hate crime at all. Then they and others like Rick Santorum, a notorious race baiter, tried to spin it as a sign of Christian persecution.
This nation has a very serious problem with race and with racism. Part of the problem comes from people who intentionally incite and promote ugly stereotypes to further a political and a cultural agenda.
This has got to stop and we have got to have a serious dialogue about race, race relations and racism in this nation. And we have to call out those who promote an agenda of hate...once and for all.
Again, I apologize if my rant offends anyone here, but I am not one who can sit quietly by and watch this nonsense take place without screaming, "Enough!"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 17:57:56 GMT -5
Babs. Thanx for posting. I watched Fox today just to get a feel. They certainly see things differently. I don't think this country is capable of a serious dialogue about race. Between condescending hatred and political correctness, there is very little common ground.
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Post by babylon5 on Jun 18, 2015 18:06:00 GMT -5
Gates,
I have my doubts too, but we have got to try. Damn it, we have to try. And the first thing that we should do is look ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves if we really want to rid our nation of the ugly stain of racism. And if the answer is yes, then we have to expose and to confront it when we hear it, or when we see it.
If not, then this is going to get much worse.
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jun 18, 2015 18:28:42 GMT -5
Preface: I apologize is my rant offends anyone, but damn! I am so sick and tired of watching the news and seeing African-American bodies pile up and, worse, to see Fox News and many Right-wing pundits and politician try and White-plain it away. The horrible incident which took place in South Carolina was a clear example of racially inspired domestic terrorism. The sick animal who entered the church and shot unarmed church goers was, in his words, an attempt to start a race war. He stated that he was tired of "these people" raping our women and taking over the country. Meanwhile, the idiots at Fox News, the faux news agency which blow its racist dog whistle every chance it gets, tried to take hold of the narrative and say that it wasn't a hate crime at all. Then they and others like Rick Santorum, a notorious race baiter, tried to spin it as a sign of Christian persecution. This nation has a very serious problem with race and with racism. Part of the problem comes from people who intentionally incite and promote ugly stereotypes to further a political and a cultural agenda. This has got to stop and we have got to have a serious dialogue about race, race relations and racism in this nation. And we have to call out those who promote an agenda of hate...once and for all. Again, I apologize if my rant offends anyone here, but I am not one who can sit quietly by and watch this nonsense take place without screaming, "Enough!" I almost didn't want to bring this up here because I didn't know where anyone here stood on these topics and didn't want to ruin friendships, but NIC my man, you couldn't have said it better. I almost started to tear up reading what you wrote and Im not one for crying really. I feel so bad for American kids growing up in this society right now. What type of world are we making by hating on each other. Growing up in New York in Brooklyn and Huntington Long Island NY, I semi-naively didn't face RACISM in my face to be honest. On TV, in books and on other media sure. I just saw everyone as for who they were. I've dated at one point a girl who was Muslim, a few Jewish girls and almost every ethnic background including my own and their parents loved me because of my character. It wasn't until I moved to Florida in my two stints down here, that I see this constant need for us humans to be disgusting towards another, IN MY FACE. Terrorism is terrorism regardless and even if you're not a Christian nor BLACK you should be outraged this happened on our soil. I don't care of your a Liberal or Conservative these were human beings in a prayer meeting no less first, and your fellow Americans second. Like you Nic, I'm absolutely disgusted by these events now either week or almost everyday now. Sigh!!!!
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Jun 18, 2015 18:42:48 GMT -5
Nic I applaud you my brother I fought racism all my life,my favorite player was Clemente and he died trying to help people in an earth quake and he always said i have both black and latino .It really hurts people to have them feel that way,I know because it happen to me.Granted the blacks have been getting the brunt of it for a while,Cuba was differrent blacks and white where brothers it's an island so where do you go you get along.This thing has to stop.I think I hate to say this because it also might strike a cord but it's regligous extremest that is a big part too.Bigotry and racism is horrible and has no place among modern culture.We are animals we haven't developed shit we think we have advanced but their too many crazy people being the norm to my liking and most of them do it in the name of their perturb religious warped minds.
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Post by babylon5 on Jun 18, 2015 18:51:38 GMT -5
Rene and Jason,
Thank you. We have got to find a way out of this.
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Post by babylon5 on Jun 19, 2015 1:04:38 GMT -5
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 19, 2015 11:26:40 GMT -5
I see two subjects here. One is obviously racism. The other is mass violence. Racism certainly was a factor in Charleston, on the Long Island Railway and maybe even Virginia Tech. Racism was not a factor in Aurora and Colombine, CO or Newtown, CT. Let's talk racism first because there is a story on the front page of the CNN webpage that states Black Americans are "terrified". Black Americans Terrified
IMHO, and y'all know I could be dead wrong, there will always be racism. It's at the core of our DNA to be suspicious of strangers and those not like us. It's been this way since Man started walking upright. You can't legislate out that level of thinking. It has to be phased out naturally. I do think laws help. I think there should be punishment for specific crimes against people based on their race, gender, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, etc. There has to be a steep price paid for committing a Hate Crime. I don't know if it's a deterrent or not simply because the type of ignorance that fuels Hate crimes is immune to the consequences of committing these crimes. I do believe the racism in our country is going to get better just like it's improved in my lifetime alone. My daughter is far more tolerant and understanding than I am and and I am far more tolerant and understanding than my father. As our family tree gets better and stronger my hope is others will too till there is a forest of tolerance versus a jungle of hate. With each succeeding generation we inch closer to real understanding and tolerance. The process is slow. It's called evolution. We, as people, have to evolve to first recognize our prejudices, take measures to counter those prejudices and then teach our children to be better than us. Is the current race situation in America anywhere near where it needs to be? Where it should be? No. Not even close yet. American Presidential candidates still insult Mexicans, Germans still despise the French, Pakistan and India are always on the brink of war, some Muslims want all infidels dead, some Christians want all Muslims dead, tribes in Africa slaughter each other and/or kidnap women to be their slave brides and so on and so on. The hating goes on and the only Ambassadors of Peace are our kids. But then you get a kid like Dylann Roof who obviously was filled with hate and you ask yourself not "Why?" but WHO filled this kid with so much venom towards innocent and good people who just look different than he does. The people will get a pound of revenge, NOT justice, against Dylann Roof but will they ever know why this kid did what he did beyond the fact he thought he was defending his kind? Maybe though likely not. I think Black Americans are not terrified of a nutcase White Supremacist with an assault rifle slaughtering them in the streets. I do think they are wary in the same way I am wary of movie theaters, malls and restaurants. I don't think Black Americans are terrified of a small minority of law enforcement that seems to target them, sometimes with extreme prejudice like Walter Scott in North Charleston. I think they are pissed though. I think they should be pissed. It reminds me of a friend who asked me how I felt after 9/11. She was scared. I was pissed. Black Americans are getting mad and answers have to be found soon before the rage gets out of control. I am heartened by the fact that many people of all races have gravitated towards Emanuel AME Church to show their solidarity. As an American my heart is broken because these 9 good people, and really they were praying in a church on a weekday night so how much better can you get, were savagely taken from their loved ones and friends and the community at large by a single, horrifically misguided young man with all of the questions and none of the answers about life and how it should work. But he knew how a gun worked. But there is another issue. I don't know if it's the larger issue or not but early reports state there were "signs" with this kid that all was not right with him. Sound familiar? The same was said about mass killers James Holmes, Colin Ferguson, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, and Seung Hui-Cho. And others. The signs were ignored. Swept under the rug. In some cases the signs were extreme and yet people who might have been able to help these young men and stop the atrocities they later committed deemed it not their business or felt they would be meddling in the affairs of another to tell someone about the bizarre behaviors exhibited by each and every one of these killers. There is a common thread here of insanity on one side and negligence on the other. I am filled today with sadness. Sad over good lives lost. Sad my friend Jason has had to face hate and ignorance based on a misguided perception about him because he looks different than somebody else. They know not his heart or his mind or his soul. How can you judge anybody without knowing these things? I know my friend Nic is upset. Nic fills his Facebook feed with some of the most beautiful and amazing images imaginable and yet he took the time here to vent his frustrations because 9 good people lost their lives because hate walked in the door and hate was packing a gun. A little thread of light though. Hate has no place here. Not ever.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 11:31:58 GMT -5
Mr Rose that was wonderful. Thank you for posting
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jun 19, 2015 11:58:14 GMT -5
I see two subjects here. One is obviously racism. The other is mass violence. Racism certainly was a factor in Charleston, on the Long Island Railway and maybe even Virginia Tech. Racism was not a factor in Aurora and Colombine, CO or Newtown, CT. Let's talk racism first because there is a story on the front page of the CNN webpage that states Black Americans are "terrified". Black Americans Terrified
IMHO, and y'all know I could be dead wrong, there will always be racism. It's at the core of our DNA to be suspicious of strangers and those not like us. It's been this way since Man started walking upright. You can't legislate out that level of thinking. It has to be phased out naturally. I do think laws help. I think there should be punishment for specific crimes against people based on their race, gender, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, etc. There has to be a steep price paid for committing a Hate Crime. I don't know if it's a deterrent or not simply because the type of ignorance that fuels Hate crimes is immune to the consequences of committing these crimes. I do believe the racism in our country is going to get better just like it's improved in my lifetime alone. My daughter is far more tolerant and understanding than I am and and I am far more tolerant and understanding than my father. As our family tree gets better and stronger my hope is others will too till there is a forest of tolerance versus a jungle of hate. With each succeeding generation we inch closer to real understanding and tolerance. The process is slow. It's called evolution. We, as people, have to evolve to first recognize our prejudices, take measures to counter those prejudices and then teach our children to be better than us. Is the current race situation in America anywhere near where it needs to be? Where it should be? No. Not even close yet. American Presidential candidates still insult Mexicans, Germans still despise the French, Pakistan and India are always on the brink of war, some Muslims want all infidels dead, some Christians want all Muslims dead, tribes in Africa slaughter each other and/or kidnap women to be their slave brides and so on and so on. The hating goes on and the only Ambassadors of Peace are our kids. But then you get a kid like Dylann Roof who obviously was filled with hate and you ask yourself not "Why?" but WHO filled this kid with so much venom towards innocent and good people who just look different than he does. The people will get a pound of revenge, NOT justice, against Dylann Roof but will they ever know why this kid did what he did beyond the fact he thought he was defending his kind? Maybe though likely not. I think Black Americans are not terrified of a nutcase White Supremacist with an assault rifle slaughtering them in the streets. I do think they are wary in the same way I am wary of movie theaters, malls and restaurants. I don't think Black Americans are terrified of a small minority of law enforcement that seems to target them, sometimes with extreme prejudice like Walter Scott in North Charleston. I think they are pissed though. I think they should be pissed. It reminds me of a friend who asked me how I felt after 9/11. She was scared. I was pissed. Black Americans are getting mad and answers have to be found soon before the rage gets out of control. I am heartened by the fact that many people of all races have gravitated towards Emanuel AME Church to show their solidarity. As an American my heart is broken because these 9 good people, and really they were praying in a church on a weekday night so how much better can you get, were savagely taken from their loved ones and friends and the community at large by a single, horrifically misguided young man with all of the questions and none of the answers about life and how it should work. But he knew how a gun worked. But there is another issue. I don't know if it's the larger issue or not but early reports state there were "signs" with this kid that all was not right with him. Sound familiar? The same was said about mass killers James Holmes, Colin Ferguson, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, and Seung Hui-Cho. And others. The signs were ignored. Swept under the rug. In some cases the signs were extreme and yet people who might have been able to help these young men and stop the atrocities they later committed deemed it not their business or felt they would be meddling in the affairs of another to tell someone about the bizarre behaviors exhibited by each and every one of these killers. There is a common thread here of insanity on one side and negligence on the other. I am filled today with sadness. Sad over good lives lost. Sad my friend Jason has had to face hate and ignorance based on a misguided perception about him because he looks different than somebody else. They know not his heart or his mind or his soul. How can you judge anybody without knowing these things? I know my friend Nic is upset. Nic fills his Facebook feed with some of the most beautiful and amazing images imaginable and yet he took the time here to vent his frustrations because 9 good people lost their lives because hate walked in the door and hate was packing a gun. A little thread of light though. Hate has no place here. Not ever. Thanks Bill.
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Post by garyd on Jun 19, 2015 13:03:56 GMT -5
I think a lot has been passed off as racism , which to me is a form of hatred. I do know that its doesn't have to be there. I grew up in a multi-racial neighborhood and kids played together , went to school together and were friendly. I am white but my best friend was black. He and I had each others back all the way through most of lower school. I moved away and lost touch for a year but then saw him at an event and called out for him. He turned in my direction and knew me but walked away without responding with his now all black friends. I kind of was stunned based on our friendship, but realized later that this was real life.
"Racism" is tossed out as a word easily, but times have changed and people have changed. There is still an element as Bill said that wont change. And a lot of it is economic based, even more than skin color. But unfortunately growing up with hate causes outbursts like that abominable event in South Carolina. I've seen and am disgusted by events like this and also the shooting of whites by the drive by Father and son in Washington DC, the snipers poised on Cal freeway ramps during the Watts riot in Southern California shooting at random white drivers.
I thought that having a bi-racial President would help but it seems to be even worse now, maybe because of wide spread media. I don't have an answer. No one does, not even the POTUS. It doesn't have to happen.
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Post by babylon5 on Jun 19, 2015 16:07:48 GMT -5
Bill,
I have the highest respect for you, but I am very pissed off.
I have chosen to vent my anger on Facebook, because, in my opinion, there are certain elements in our society, namely Fox News and the GOP, which pander to racists. They empower the racist. The enable the racists. And I have had my f-ing fill of it and I have chosen to no longer remain silent and to speak up.
So, on I have posted many articles on Facebook which detail the ways in which Fox and the GOP are trying to take control of the narrative of the Charleston incident. Fox has tried to claim that the incident was not racially motivated, despite what the gunman said, but it was an example of Christian persecution. Rick Santorum echoed that ridiculous idea. Rick Perry went one step further, stating that Obama will use this tragedy to take people's guns away and that the incident was a result of drug abuse. The NRA blamed the preacher for his own death and the death of his church members, because, when he was a member of the South Carolina government, he fought for stronger gun controls and, as the NRA spokesman continued, if he and the other victims of this tragedy had simply packed heat, then this would have been avoided. And today, Fox News pushed the idea that the cause of this tragedy is due, in part, because we are too diverse a nation now and that we are threatened by non-American ideas. lastly, Fox and other media outlets are trying to portray this as a mental health issue. Please!!!! He may have some underlying issues, but racism is learned behavior, it is part of the legacy of this nation and of the South in particular. Trying to frame it as a mental health issue is an attempt to minimize the racial component of this tragedy and is an attempt, once more, by White society of avoiding the issues of systemic and institutionalized racism that are engrained into our nation from day one.
Racism is hatred that is passed from one generation to the next. And it appears that racism is a tool used by Fox and by the GOP to rally the more unseemly elements of their base.
I am using Facebook to "out" Fox News and the GOP. I am not the one promoting hate. That is not my agenda. I am merely trying to expose it.
Yes, I am pissed, but please do not confuse my anger with hate. And if you don't see how the GOP and Fox uses racism to pander to the more unseemly elements of their base and of our nation, then I think that is part of the reason why racism will never be eliminated from our nation.
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Post by babylon5 on Jun 19, 2015 16:26:25 GMT -5
www.counterpunch.org/2015/06/19/white-terrorism-in-charleston/"Blacks are criminalized in the news media, treated as less desirable than whites in the popular culture, and presented overwhelmingly as threatening criminal elements in film and television. Americans of all colors are inculcated to see blacks as threatening, alien, dangerous. This is terrorism. Black Americans are killed for eating skittles. Playing with toy guns as children. Listening to loud music. Selling cigarettes on the street. Running away from police officers. Hanging out at a pool party. Attending prayer meetings. There doesn’t seem to be a way for black Americans to just be that doesn’t involve the threat of death or violence at the hands of whites. This is terrorism. White Americans can drive without fear of being pulled over for the color of their skin and walk down the street without fear of being stopped and frisked. Black Americans cannot. White Americans can walk up to a police officer looking for help or directions. Black Americans face the chance of death if they do the same. This is terrorism. Terrorism is political and social violence and coercion that has the effect of changing the standard operating procedure of the societies it affects and striking fear into the communities it assaults. Blacks in America have no static standard operating procedure. Their behavior has to change constantly to reflect the threats and intimidation. For the black community in America, even the church is a place where one cannot feel safe. Not in 1963, not in the 90s, not in 2015. The reason for white terrorism has one simple underlying explanation. There is a sociopathic part of the national white American subconscious that refuses to allow the black community to ever rise to an equal footing, and will use whatever means necessary to maintain white supremacy. In the wake of the conclusion of the Civil War, the KKK was formed in reaction to the freeing of the slaves. The terrorizing of blacks that began after the end of slavery has continued to today."
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 19, 2015 18:33:40 GMT -5
www.counterpunch.org/2015/06/19/white-terrorism-in-charleston/"Blacks are criminalized in the news media, treated as less desirable than whites in the popular culture, and presented overwhelmingly as threatening criminal elements in film and television. Americans of all colors are inculcated to see blacks as threatening, alien, dangerous. This is terrorism. Black Americans are killed for eating skittles. Playing with toy guns as children. Listening to loud music. Selling cigarettes on the street. Running away from police officers. Hanging out at a pool party. Attending prayer meetings. There doesn’t seem to be a way for black Americans to just be that doesn’t involve the threat of death or violence at the hands of whites. This is terrorism. White Americans can drive without fear of being pulled over for the color of their skin and walk down the street without fear of being stopped and frisked. Black Americans cannot. White Americans can walk up to a police officer looking for help or directions. Black Americans face the chance of death if they do the same. This is terrorism. Terrorism is political and social violence and coercion that has the effect of changing the standard operating procedure of the societies it affects and striking fear into the communities it assaults. Blacks in America have no static standard operating procedure. Their behavior has to change constantly to reflect the threats and intimidation. For the black community in America, even the church is a place where one cannot feel safe. Not in 1963, not in the 90s, not in 2015. The reason for white terrorism has one simple underlying explanation. There is a sociopathic part of the national white American subconscious that refuses to allow the black community to ever rise to an equal footing, and will use whatever means necessary to maintain white supremacy. In the wake of the conclusion of the Civil War, the KKK was formed in reaction to the freeing of the slaves. The terrorizing of blacks that began after the end of slavery has continued to today." I'm not sure why I am getting this sermon Father Nic. Feel free to vent away on Facebook and if you want to hold Fox News feet to the fire by all means do so. I have no pony in that race. I do have an aversion to politicizing tragedy though but that's me. I'm old fashioned that way.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 19, 2015 18:42:56 GMT -5
Bill, I have the highest respect for you, but I am very pissed off. I have chosen to vent my anger on Facebook, because, in my opinion, there are certain elements in our society, namely Fox News and the GOP, which pander to racists. They empower the racist. The enable the racists. And I have had my f-ing fill of it and I have chosen to no longer remain silent and to speak up. So, on I have posted many articles on Facebook which detail the ways in which Fox and the GOP are trying to take control of the narrative of the Charleston incident. Fox has tried to claim that the incident was not racially motivated, despite what the gunman said, but it was an example of Christian persecution. Rick Santorum echoed that ridiculous idea. Rick Perry went one step further, stating that Obama will use this tragedy to take people's guns away and that the incident was a result of drug abuse. The NRA blamed the preacher for his own death and the death of his church members, because, when he was a member of the South Carolina government, he fought for stronger gun controls and, as the NRA spokesman continued, if he and the other victims of this tragedy had simply packed heat, then this would have been avoided. And today, Fox News pushed the idea that the cause of this tragedy is due, in part, because we are too diverse a nation now and that we are threatened by non-American ideas. lastly, Fox and other media outlets are trying to portray this as a mental health issue. Please!!!! He may have some underlying issues, but racism is learned behavior, it is part of the legacy of this nation and of the South in particular. Trying to frame it as a mental health issue is an attempt to minimize the racial component of this tragedy and is an attempt, once more, by White society of avoiding the issues of systemic and institutionalized racism that are engrained into our nation from day one. Racism is hatred that is passed from one generation to the next. And it appears that racism is a tool used by Fox and by the GOP to rally the more unseemly elements of their base. I am using Facebook to "out" Fox News and the GOP. I am not the one promoting hate. That is not my agenda. I am merely trying to expose it. Yes, I am pissed, but please do not confuse my anger with hate. And if you don't see how the GOP and Fox uses racism to pander to the more unseemly elements of their base and of our nation, then I think that is part of the reason why racism will never be eliminated from our nation. Nic I quoted the wrong post but again I ask why is this directed at me? If you are pissed by all means vent. But I am hoping I got this all wrong and your venting is not aimed at me. If you want to know how I feel about something then ask. Don't assume. But let me give you a little heads up. People who stereotype are biased too. Demonizing an entire political party by labeling them seems the other side of the same problem you are protesting. Not all Republicans are bad. Not all Democrats are good. Not all white folks are bigots. FWIW, some of those Fox people are stone cold nuts but they have their liberal counterparts too. Like I said I hope I misinterpreted you because this whole post seems totally out of left field.
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