Alan Hahn

[ironman95]

Alan Hahn runs a blog chat on Thursdays at 1PM. From that chat, I found out that Morris Almond is in the Orlando Magic camp, so forget about that option. Patrick Ewing Jr's knee injury is apparently pretty serious. He doesn't know much about the Sun, says Gallinari has grown and has bigger shoulders. Hasn't seen Eddy yet. Chandler is recovered and working out. No one has seen Darko yet, but he is expected shortly. He expects no major deals this year, although dealing Curry would be a good thing. He expects Eddy to play well in the system...........if.............and it's a big if...............he is in good enough shape to run up and down. Part of the system design is to tire out the opponents biggie, and that has to be Eddy's job, and he can only do it if he is in shape. He expects Eddy to get a lot of opportunities like Lee got early last season feeding off of Duhon, until as we all know Duhon hit the wall. He expects the starting lineup to be: Duhon, Chandler, Gallinari, Lee and Curry. I agree with the first 4, but am not as sure about Curry. I think Darko and later on Hill may be better alternatives in the middle. Maybe even Gallinari in certain situations. In my opinion, D'Antoni will have a dilemma as to whether to showcase Curry and Jeffries in hopes of trading them, or developing the youngsters. I would speculate the Walsh would want option #1 and D'Antoni #2, and Walsh is the boss. Even as fans, what can we say but that we want both, which is impossible. We want Curry and Jeffries to look attractive so that some fool GM will take them off of our hands, yet we want to see the youngsters play lots of minutes, and look good doing so, so as to attract that mega-free agent in the summer of 2010. I do not expect the Jazz to deal Boozer to the Knicks, because they would in effect be lowering the value of that Knicks pick they now own. Boozer is unquestionably a better player than Lee, never-the-less, I only trade Lee for Boozer(I would throw in the Mobley contract) if they send that pick back. One other thing; when asked whether he expected Rubio to be a Knick at some point in time, Hahn's answer was "NO". That is contrary to my opinion, but he is the supposed expert.

[dk7th]

i like hahn but his prediction for curry is sheer crazy talk. the object is to mesh as a club and to win as many games as possible in order to attract lebron james. curry is a misfit in d'antoni's system even if were to get back to 285 pounds, apparently an impossibility according to his trainers. can't shoot from outside the lane, can't finish, can't rebound, can't defend the position, can't block shots.

you can't win by playing curry or jeffries.

i want to see gallinari, lee, and darko with duhon and chandler too. eff this showcase crapola.

in my opinion curry and jeffries are both known quantities throughout the league. they should be playing during the meaningless parts of games when the game is no longer in doubt.

[ironman95]

I can't disagree with you DK. I'd rather see the youngsters play also. The big question mark in my mind is "What does Darko have, and what can the coach get out of him?". I think that will go a long way in determining who plays what minutes, and will affect Curry and Jordan Hill especially. Who will create a defensive presence in the middle? Darko, Hill, Gallinari? We know Curry and Lee cannot. I would not be surprised if by the end of the season, Gallinari and Hill are rotating at center. The other major questions in my mind concern what to do with Harrington and Hughes. Hahn predicted the starting lineup of Duhon, Chandler, Gallinari, Lee and Curry with his 3 bench guys being Robinson, Harrington and Darko. No mention of Hughes, Douglas or Hill as part of the rotation. I hope that by the middle of the season, Hill and Douglas prove good enough to be part of the rotation. I think Douglas will be needed, while Hill can be developed more slowly, but Hill seems to have a lot of passion which may get him some playing time.

[dk7th]

Sept 17, 2009 18:01:16 GMT -5 ironman95 said:

I can't disagree with you DK. I'd rather see the youngsters play also. The big question mark in my mind is "What does Darko have, and what can the coach get out of him?". I think that will go a long way in determining who plays what minutes, and will affect Curry and Jordan Hill especially. Who will create a defensive presence in the middle? Darko, Hill, Gallinari? We know Curry and Lee cannot. I would not be surprised if by the end of the season, Gallinari and Hill are rotating at center. The other major questions in my mind concern what to do with Harrington and Hughes. Hahn predicted the starting lineup of Duhon, Chandler, Gallinari, Lee and Curry with his 3 bench guys being Robinson, Harrington and Darko. No mention of Hughes, Douglas or Hill as part of the rotation. I hope that by the middle of the season, Hill and Douglas prove good enough to be part of the rotation. I think Douglas will be needed, while Hill can be developed more slowly, but Hill seems to have a lot of passion which may get him some playing time.

as with the curry showcase stuff, it is sheer madness to think that duhon will not be backed by douglas for 15-20 minutes a game. come on-- nate robinson will be playing the point? lmfao. i don't understand what alan is thinking here. ridiculous!

here's the rotation in my universe, insignificant as it may be: the starting lineup, as mentioned, with douglas off the bench for duhon, hughes or robinson fighting for minutes at shooting guard behind chandler ( i prefer hughes if he can defend lus e has a pretty good stroke), harrington spelling gallinari or lee, hill in for darko.

yes that's a ten man rotation, mike d'antoni: and i will say again this preseason what i said last preseason: press and trap at the end of close games after made baskets. use douglas, gallinari, chandler, hughes, and perhaps darko as a unit. the knicks have pressed and trapped all too rarely during the isiah catastrophe but last year as well. what's wrong with pressing and trapping when you know your half-court defense is below average? if the teams with inferior ball-handlers can manage to beat it then fine. it sure beats the open door, open lane policy the knicks are renowned for.

darko is a tough eastern european and he has a good looking stroke from 15 feet-- just the type of player for d'antoni-ball.

[ironman95]

I am with you most of the way there DK. I think Douglas has to play, because Nate is just not a point guard. I think and hope his defense is good enough, which he has a reputation for. I am not sure just how Hughes will be used. He has some(deteriorating but still there) defensive skills, where Nate is just a defensive liability most of the time. You just hope he scores enough points for the Knicks to make up for that. I have a feeling that Darko will work out well, but if either he or Jordan Hill shows us some game, I think the Knicks might acheive a 40 win season. Assuming Duhon, Lee, Chandler and Gallinari improve just a little bit, a reasonable assumption then it is up to D'Antoni to find a combination to man the center position that works, as well as a way to give Duhon enough rest so he doesn't hit the wall again this year. I am counting on Douglas and Darko with Hill in reserve. I cannot get excited about Eddy at all. Even a totally BUFF, in shape Eddy will still be a liability on this team, at both ends of the court. He just doesn't fit with this system and these players.

[greatgates]

I gotta disagree on 2 fronts. First I expect Curry will beat Darko out. I believe he'll be very effective in D'antoni's system. Second, I doubt douglass is in any way ready more significant minutes.

[irish2u2]

I am not so sure Curry beats Darko out but it may be a very, very nice problem to have when all is said and done. I'd love a two headed center attack where one guy is an absolute beast in the post while the other guy plays better defense, rebounds and is able to hit shots from midrange while making high post passes to cutting teammates. If Curry can light a fire under his butt, and consequently Darko's too, the Knicks profit.

As for Nate it has been a humbling off season for him, one that might get him to see the light of day and his future. His future is at PG and he already has all the pre-requisite skills save one. The right mindset. If Nate can think team first he has the ability to be a top notch backup PG allowing us to take our time developing Toney Douglas.

One interesting facet of Hahn's blog outside Curry starting over Darko is Gallinari starting at small forward. I like it. Gallo has Point Forward skills and the fact that Lee is also good handling and passing the ball really gives D'Antoni's offense some teeth. Both Lee and Gallo, along with Duhon, can find Curry down low creating mismatches for us all over the court.

Plus Gallo at SF means Chandler at SG and this is another positional switch I like a lot. If Wilson can handle the perimeter shooting I love his size, athletic ability, rebounding and defense at SG.

Back to Curry the key is his ability to transition from offense to defense. Assuming he has done the pre-requisite cardio work along with trimming the weight I see no reason why he can't be successful at center for the Knicks. Before he got hurt he was working on a midrange jumper which certainly is a fit for the offense and minus the extra poundage he should be better on the boards. Curry will never be the ideal center for D'Antoni but he can work in the system because the system is flexible. We all forget sometimes that despite his girth Curry was a very nimble guy with quick feet.

Personally I am hoping Darko beats him out because Milicic brings all the needed components to the table. He is taller, more athletic, able to hit midrange shots, able to play defense and rebound and the guy is an excellent passer from the post.

I also love the idea of Nate and Harrington off the bench too. Both could be 6th Man candidates. Factoring in the loser of the Curry/Darko quest as a starting center as the pivot off the bench I think the other two backups off the bench at PF and SG could be interesting. I think Hill gets some burn but I expect Harrington will switch around along with Gallo and maybe Lee. Whoever makes the team from either Sun Yue or Gabe Pruitt is likely to fight it out with Larry Hughes for backup minutes at guard keeping in mind all of them including Nate can play either guard position.

I am still waiting for Gary to weigh in on Pruitt though as I recall he liked him a lot when he was at USC.

[kgooglog]

I absolutely love the projected line-up that Alan Hahn projects and I 100% agree with Bill's response as well as Ironman's observations.

If Gallo is the starting SF, we now have a point forward who has the Alan Houston shot, which has been sorely missed. If Lee is retained, it makes sense to have an in-shape Eddy Curry being that scoring pivot we so missed last season. I agree with Gates that Curry will initially beat Darko out as far as a starting job, but I also see Milicic having a career resurgence in this system, which really requires an outside shot and an ability to run the floor. The last time Curry ran, it was to an "all you can eat" special at Duff's...However, that said, Hahn has also seen Curry's weight loss. I trust Alan on this one, despite the ever-present lack of photographic evidence of the aforementioned.

I absolutely love Wilson Chandler at the 2. I still want the Chandler whose athletic prowess, allows him to slash ala Sprewell, for the ferocious dunk, since the one issue with Will is the aggressiveness factor. If Wilson takes a leadership role on this Knicks team, he will be a 20 PPG scorer on the squad. He shoots 80% at the FT line and is consistently fouled WHEN he goes to the hoop. Bill makes a nice point about Chandler's outside shot, and this is an area which I think bears watching.

I am sure Chris Duhon has learned that drinking 40s on a late night basis is not the way to stay in condition for this fast-paced system which requires health. David Lee, again, if he is retained by NY, will probably see the same rebounding numbers as Curry is no Bill Russell in tis area and never was. However, not seeing Jared Jeffries starting as a "defensive specialist", is simply a blessing. With Jared in the line-up, NY played a 4 on 5 game against every team in the NBA on the offensive end. I like Jeffries. I want him traded, though. Preferably for a first round pick--even a low one. I'd even take Mike James and a future second rounder for Jeffries. I'd even marry my first ex-wife again if Walsh trades Jeffries for anything that expires on July 1st, 2010.

Having Al Harrington and Nate Robinson off the bench, is an element that this Knicks team needs. If Darko is the pivot in the second unit, I absolutely love the dynamic of our reserve team. Toss in Jordan Hill at PF and Toney Douglas at one of the guard slots, and this is a very, very formidible line-up. Harrington is playing for his career, as is Nate, to a degree. I do think that our future center may be Darko, Hill, or even Gallo, but for now, I love Hahn's assessment and the thoughts of my comrades on this board.

To Dk. Walsh has to showcase Curry, IMHO. If Eddy doesn't work out in Mike D'Antoni's system, and the odds are sort of stacked against EC, he has to be traded. Cap-space in 2010 is an utmost priority, as you know, and Curry is on the cap for another year and at a price which defies logic. Belive it or not, I want Eddy to be on this Knicks team providing he has done the requisite work which Hahn has implied. In terms of pivot fit, I do see Darko Milicic and Danilo Gallinari being possible, better alternatives. I think Gallo will bust out this year as a versatile SF/PF/C (spot)...

[ReneNYG1]

That sounds like a good team,Gallo small forward,Chandler two guard,Lee power forward,Duhon point and Darko or Curry/Hill at the five sounds really impressive really.Gallo is showing alot of promise in camp and could be the star that shines this year being healthy, but I agree Bill Darko could be special in this system too.We have a nice bench too.

[kgooglog]

One point, no pun intended, is one that Bill spoke to. I think Nate CAN BE a PG if he is so inclined. I did see flashes of his passing and when Nate's head is on right (which is a major issue for this player), he does have the ability, in my estimation to be a sweet combo guard. Lest we forget, Robinson has an excellent shot and can incredibly break down a team's defense when he slashes or cuts straight down the middle for mind-blowing shots.

Is N8 a John Stockton? No, of course not. He is, however, a player who does have the skills for either guard position. His defense is questionable at best, and I think that if he used his incredible athletic abilties on the other end of the court, Nate can prove that he is that special player that Zeke drafted.

I want to see the rookie guard so badly that I would offer to buy Eddy a veggie steak.

[dk7th]

ken among the three of us-- you me and bill-- we see players differently. the players we will never see eye to eye on are robinson, harrington, and curry. i see all three of them as zero sum players whereas you have a brighter view of their abilities and capacities. i don't think robinson is either willing or capable-- or maybe he is unwilling because he knows he's incapable. i just want to underscore here that learning to be a genuine point guard-- if indeed he has to learn-- is an almost impossible task. he needs to be able to dribble well with either hand, keep his head up, maintain his dribble when necessary, and orchestrate an offense.

the reason why i am skeptical of his ability in this regard is because these are skills that are better acquired during ones formative years from 11-18 or so. did robinson learn those skills? my answer is no. why? simple: because he didn't have to. he simply dominated athletically without acquiring those skills that would best suit his stature if and when he made it to the nba. and of course he is not the only one who falls into this category not by a long shot. and if i am painting an accurate portrait, is it entirely his fault? absolutely not. it's "the system" that pushes these superior athletes too fast and too hard for their own good which ends up hindering their developing of genuine basketball skills.

it's good to disagree or there'd be nothing to talk about. but what i like is that one or some of us is bound to learn something that they did not know or understand before, or be disabused of a firmly held notion or belief. this includes our widely divergent opinions on hasheem thabeet.

[kgooglog]

Sept 18, 2009 13:28:57 GMT -5 @dk7th said:

ken among the three of us-- you me and bill-- we see players differently. the players we will never see eye to eye on are robinson, harrington, and curry. i see all three of them as zero sum players whereas you have a brighter view of their abilities and capacities. i don't think robinson is either willing or capable-- or maybe he is unwilling because he knows he's incapable. i just want to underscore here that learning to be a genuine point guard-- if indeed he has to learn-- is an almost impossible task. he needs to be able to dribble well with either hand, keep his head up, maintain his dribble when necessary, and orchestrate an offense.

the reason why i am skeptical of his ability in this regard is because these are skills that are better acquired during ones formative years from 11-18 or so. did robinson learn those skills? my answer is no. why? simple: because he didn't have to. he simply dominated athletically without acquiring those skills that would best suit his stature if and when he made it to the nba. and of course he is not the only one who falls into this category not by a long shot. and if i am painting an accurate portrait, is it entirely his fault? absolutely not. it's "the system" that pushes these superior athletes too fast and too hard for their own good which ends up hindering their developing of genuine basketball skills.

it's good to disagree or there'd be nothing to talk about. but what i like is that one or some of us is bound to learn something that they did not know or understand before, or be disabused of a firmly held notion or belief. this includes our widely divergent opinions on hasheem thabeet.

DK...

I definitely love it when we can disagree on players, although I am not as much of a Harrington guy. While Al has had his moments, he has abandoned the defensive willingness that got his ass into the NBA, and that is my sole complaint about him. Conversely, he is an outstanding offensive player, albeit on the selfish side, IMO. I have often said that the last time Harrington passed the ball was to the ref when he was 'T'd up for doing chin-ups on the rim I do think Al would be far better suited coming off the bench with Nate, Hill, and Douglas. I think our second unit last year lacked scoring. One thing Al Harrington can do is score points and in a hurry.

I do think Nate has shown glimpses of being a player who is more than a shoot, shoot, shoot type. I agree with you about these skills generally being acquired during a player's formative years, and yes, Robinson has been blessed with the most freakish set of athletic skills I have ever seen in a basketball player, which has probably led to him not developing or utilizing play-making as a primary weapon. But the issue for me is that I do think Nate CAN BE an effective play-maker. However, I think your observations on him are very true.

Interesting about Eddy Curry. I have always been of the belief that Bigs generally take 5 years to mature in a professional sense. My overly optimistic attitude (Kool-aid) says that this may just be Curry's time, based on the events of last year and the fact that for the first time, an organization has mandated that he decrease his bust-line by 8 inches. Back when NY acquired Curry, I was one of the biggest band-wagoneers of this trade, along with our on-hiatus AOL MB comrade, Mayo. We loved Curry, and applauded Zeke for making this deal. Boy, talk about eating crow, considering that we also loved the Jerome James signing as well!

While it seems like Eddy has been a Knick for centuries, he is still only 26 years old. Now, while I agree he has shown the inspiration of a fruit-fly on a cucumber for the game, he does have an offensive skill set which is impressive. I also think that a leaner Eddy will be a better rebounder, although I do not expect a significant rise from his career numbers, simply because I think Darko will eventually become the starting pivot, as he seemingly fits the Mike D'Antoni system better than a 318 pound low post type of clogging mass of man. I also believe that Eddy will be traded if he plays well enough to merit another GM to do so. Centers are a commodity n this league, even ones who have had issues. An in-shape 26-27 year old Eddy Curry who plays like he should, ought to have trade value.

I think Thabeet will have a bumpy first year in the league, and that other, lower picks will make him look like a mistake pick. I still believe that he will become a formidable player in the NBA, but I have seen the problems that you as well as others here have brought up about Hasheem. He doesn't use his hands, he is awkward in a Motumbo sort of way, and his engine needs to be tuned way up for the faster pace of the pro game. Dwight Howard will murder Hasheem this season on both ends of the court since Dwight is a physical specimen who makes Thabeet look like a turtle. I hope to be around in 5 years, so I can see Hasheem and Howard battle it out ala Wilt and Russ...

I love this game!

[ironman95]

I am with DK again on all his observations. Robinson has the skills of a 3, not a 1 or a 2, but he is about a foot short for that position. He shoot the 3, has a mid-range game, and can rebound, despite his size. He is a 3 without the body to be one, but he plays like one(SF). Curry and Harrington are as DK says "zero sum" players. They cost as much on defense as they score on offense, and they sometimes cost the team in other ways such as cohesion. I also agree on Thabeet, his head and footwork were so bad in college, and his lack of awareness will make him a bust as a #2 in the NBA. On the other hand Jerome Jordan, while raw has awareness and footwork, and some offense, that still needs work but is there. That is the guy Walsh should be targeting, not Rubio. If we had a pick next year, or acquire one, my targets would be as of right now: John Wall(of course) Jerome Jordan and Cole Aldrich. PG and Center are still the weak links to this hopefully improving team. If Chandler can't handle the 2 and has to go back to the 3, then SF will be a weakness also. I think he can but it certainly is not 100% evident just yet.

[ironman95]

I meant SG in my last point on Chandler.

[kgooglog]

Iron...

Are you saying that Nate is a RSSF (Really Short Small Forward)? It's funny, but I do see Nate in that light, too. Which is one of the reasons I enjoy watching this guy play. When a 5'8 guy has the cohones to drive down the middle of the paint against guys a foot and a half taller than him, it is a sight to behold.

Will was the one comrade here who introduced me to this kid, Cole Aldrich, via an article. If there were one draft season when we really needed a first round pick, it would be this one. The crop of players is incredible, and my main goal for the Knicks is to prevent Utah from picking John Wall.

I wish we could just get it over with now and trade Jeffries to the Kings and get Kenny Thomas and Sacramento's first round pick. It would really put the luster back on the orange and blue pumpkin, for me, that is.