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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 19, 2009 14:56:39 GMT -5
I admit I like Alan Hahn of Newsday mostly because he is like the ultimate Knicks fan who got his dream gig writing about them. I like Walter Mitty too.  In his latest column ( www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/the-knicks-fix-1.812055 ) Hahn writes about Ramon Sessions and Ricky Rubio and he makes sense. On Sessions we may be the last team standing for his services and if so we will get them at the 4 million per season that Donnie Walsh wants and not the 6 million per season Sessions and his agent want. That's smart negotiating for a player who might be worth a whole lot more than 4 million 4 years down the line. On Rubio Hahn is skeptical all this movement is a prelude to a deal with the Knicks. I think Hahn is right that Minnesota will not give away Ricky Rubio and the cost for us may be prohibitive. I do not agree with Gary and others who think Rubio will not be a star but there is enough doubt in my mind that I would want to be sure of not overpaying for him either. If we make a deal then somehow David Lee is in the mix most likely in a 3 way scenario. Myself I think it 50-50 we get Sessions and we are not waiting for Rubio as much as Ramon and his agent to go for the 4 million offer. As Hahn points out Ramon made 700K last year so 4 million is a significant salary bump. I think we sign Lee and Nate to 1 year qualifying deals and we play some basketball. No blockbusters. No head scratchers. ; ) |
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Post by whensly on Aug 19, 2009 16:22:26 GMT -5
Alan Hahn is a passionate Knicks fan,
he's also in a conflict of journalism bind since Cablevision signs his paychecks.
I doubt Hagn is in Spain thinking about the Knicks. (sadly)
if he was intent on making a trade and cutting his losses,
I suspect Chandler would be the player the Twolves would want not Lee
but I'm just speculating without a crackerjax box to stand on
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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 19, 2009 16:41:25 GMT -5
Mouse
IMHO it would be worth the gamble to trade Chandler for Rubio but I suspect the Wolves will want more. The talk has been Jordan Hill and Toney Douglas and now we get into the area of really taking a chance on this kid. I may not share Gary's reservations about Rubio but that doesn't mean they are not vaild ones either.
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Post by greatgates on Aug 19, 2009 16:47:26 GMT -5
I admit I like Alan Hahn of Newsday mostly because he is like the ultimate Knicks fan who got his dream gig writing about them. I like Walter Mitty too. In his latest column ( www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/the-knicks-fix-1.812055 ) Hahn writes about Ramon Sessions and Ricky Rubio and he makes sense. On Sessions we may be the last team standing for his services and if so we will get them at the 4 million per season that Donnie Walsh wants and not the 6 million per season Sessions and his agent want. That's smart negotiating for a player who might be worth a whole lot more than 4 million 4 years down the line. On Rubio Hahn is skeptical all this movement is a prelude to a deal with the Knicks. I think Hahn is right that Minnesota will not give away Ricky Rubio and the cost for us may be prohibitive. I do not agree with Gary and others who think Rubio will not be a star but there is enough doubt in my mind that I would want to be sure of not overpaying for him either. If we make a deal then somehow David Lee is in the mix most likely in a 3 way scenario. Myself I think it 50-50 we get Sessions and we are not waiting for Rubio as much as Ramon and his agent to go for the 4 million offer. As Hahn points out Ramon made 700K last year so 4 million is a significant salary bump. I think we sign Lee and Nate to 1 year qualifying deals and we play some basketball. No blockbusters. No head scratchers. ; ) / |
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Post by ironman95 on Aug 19, 2009 17:39:17 GMT -5
The question comes down to whether you would trade the #8 and #30 picks, and the 30 cost you $3mil, for the #5 pick. If indeed the Wolves want Hill and Douglas. I would if it was Tyreke Evans, but I am less sure those two are worth Rubio, who is still unproven in my eyes. I would reluctantly part with either Lee or Chandler and Mobley's contract for Rubio. Parting with Chandler would leave a big hole at the #2 spot with only Hughes, and possibly Douglas able to fill it, and an outside shot to Morris Almond. Or am I overlooking Nate, easy to do at 5'7". Parting with Lee leaves a pretty big hole at PF, with Hill and Darko the only real candidates along with the undersized Harrington. I still think the goal is Rubio, but I have no idea what the cost will be. If Kahn was willing to draft Rubio as simply a pawn, then he is probably willing to take David Lee, despite not really needing him, as a pawn in return. Sessions stays in "limbo-land" until there is definitive word on Rubio, is where my perspective is. This Knicks team could wind up being a marginal playoff team, or could wind up being immaturely dysfunctional for another year, depending on what or who goes for Rubio, if that comes down. And the waiting game continues, while Kahn "fiddles" and Madison Square Garden burns. Don't go off your meds anytime soon, Knicks fans.
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Post by whensly on Aug 19, 2009 17:46:01 GMT -5
I doubt the T Wolves want Hill,
look at their Roster they are built like the redwood forest (huge upfront) with rookie
johnny flynn, old man chuckie atkins and damien wilkins.
They need guards and nimble scorers..
Chandler, Nate , Douglas would be more like it.
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Aug 20, 2009 10:37:23 GMT -5
I want Rubio,everything that was said is true about him but I think he could be special and he will take time that's why getting him here sooner rather then later IMO would benefit his career,let's face it what young guy doesn't have to work on things,Lee,N8 all are improving,I'll Will and Gallo have a ton to learn ,to expect a young point who's body is physically not ready is wishful thinking,but with DAnt system Rubio could be tailor made for our passing system and IMO would be a maestro distributor with a couple of years time and I have no doubt about that,he does have great passing skills you are born with and you can't teach,he has size to work with and a great handle which is all going to work in his favor adapting to the NBA IMO.these guards coming out don't compare to him with the handle he has which with his size should open up plenty of passing opportunities in this system and we are taking a gamble for sure but IMO the system here is a perfect fit for a creative passing point.
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Post by ironman95 on Aug 20, 2009 11:25:17 GMT -5
Rene, I cannot disagree with you about Rubio's potential and his ability(now) to be creative and his ability to visualize situations fluidly, however there are two potential flaws in his game. One is his shot, which he pushes too much from his chest. I believe that can be corrected over time, but not with certainty. That shot will get blocked in the NBA quite a bit. The other potential flaw is defensively. He has the size, but can he use it. There is not a large body of evidence to let us know either way. Take Tyreke Evans as an example; he has shown the ability to play great defense. While his shot also needs some improvement, also, his shot mechanics are not deficient as Rubio's are. Yes Rubio should thrive, in D'Antoni's system, but he needs to retool his shot in order to truly be effective. That will be a project in and of itself. If Rubio is not a threat to shoot, then his defender can defend him in a way that closes down the passing lanes. Duhon has a better shot than Rubio right now, which keeps his defender honest. I am not sure we can say the same about Rubio. I still want the Knicks to acquire Rubio, but there are a lot of caveats, including the cost, the shot, the defense, the contract that will probably have to come back, unless there is a three-way trade, and the potential other hole that will be created at either the 2 or 4, in some scenarios. A team with Rubio, Hill, Douglas, Chandler, Gallinari, and Darko as main cogs in the wheel leaves D'Antoni with a lot of work to do.
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Post by whensly on Aug 20, 2009 14:05:55 GMT -5
It heard Mike D'Ant claim that while coaching during the olympics many of his players, notably Kobe,
came back to the sidelines and commented to coach D Ant about Rubio, "man that guy can play", and so began the Rubio fascination. If he makes a splash in the NBA he should thank Kobe & D Ant.
I'd like to see him thanking D Ant while wearing a Knick uniform. In life
and sports you have to take risks.. IMHO this kid is worth rolling the dice on.
I hope we do.
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Aug 20, 2009 15:01:17 GMT -5
Ironman on the small sample he's shown good defensive instincts like Gallo,these guys are two way players ,the have the smarts to anticipate passes in the lanes and get their share of steals,both are heady Euros with natural basketball skill sets,in the NBA their have been shooters like that most unaffected by defense but their shooting style didn't prove to be good either,Rick Barry being the only really affective push style shooter,others have had bad percentages shooting that way,I don't need him to shoot that much,just be the maestro for now.If Rubio only problem is his outside shoot then he would still evolve nicely dishing his way to Lebron ,Gallo and Chandler and Hill..We would have enough shooters and he will have to practice shooting which being so young can only get better,he's a gym rat type so I don't see this as a problem or risk.The best body of work we have is the Olympic games and DAnt was an eye witness and so was Lebron.Kobe was a risk out of high school too.My job is to manage risk daily and this is a nice risk reward trade IMO.I love Duhon as my backup and don't understand this love for Sessions,but Rubio would be exciting to see develope.Duhon earned an extension IMO and sure I would trade him if I could dump Jeffries or Curry but if I can keep him I though he played great before we burnt him out.
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Post by whensly on Aug 20, 2009 16:07:05 GMT -5
Alan Hahn Is On:
Cablevision's Payroll
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Post by kgooglog on Aug 21, 2009 11:06:53 GMT -5
When we discuss Ricky Rubio, Wilson Chandler's name always seems to come up, which somewhat distresses me. Will happens to be my second favorite player on NY after Eddy Curry, but unlike many here on this MB, I do see WC emerging as an all-star on a good Knicks team. Out of all the Knicks, Chandler is a five tool player, one who plays excellent defense, a player who, next to the soon-to-be departed Nate Robinson, is the most athletic player we have, a 22 year old whose upside remains simply becoming more aggressive on the offensive end of the court and improving his 3 point % which will happen by default as he will be the team's 6'8 SG this season, and a guy with a good head on his shoulders.
I'd hate to see the inexpensive Chandler go in any trade, unless it brought back an elite superstar in return. I think Minnesota would gladly take Chandler as part of a Rubio swap, for Mouse makes a good point. If you have a plethora of PFs and Jonny Flynn as your NBA ready PG, what better fit would there be than a 6'8 versatile athlete who can run all night?
My hope is that we can get Ricky Rubio, for I feel that this kid is for real and he has 15 years left of NBA life left. He may just be the best pass first PG in professional basketball, and I think his skills will translate well into the NBA world. Ideally, I'd rather see some sort of exchange for Ruby involving Nate, for Rubio cannot make more than the rookie scale contract, but NY has the means to land the kid an endorsement deal which would take care of his Euro buyout.
With all this being said about Wilson Chandler, I'd have to part with him if involves rolling the dice on a player who can potentially be the best PG in the NBA by the time he is 21 years old. Growing pains are exactly that. Painful. It would be horrible for me to see Chandler go, simply because I think that he, as well as Gallo, have the most upside of any current Knick player. However, Rubio's upside may just be higher than those two players combined...
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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 21, 2009 11:48:23 GMT -5
Ken
I do not think Ricky Rubio will be better than Chris Paul or Deron Williams. I think it less than even money he is better than Derrick Rose. Ricky Rubio will be a good NBA PG but he has some serious work to do first. Right now, today, I think Jose Calderon is a better PG. ; ) That said down the road Rubio could be one of the NBA's best if he works on that shot and I am right about his NBA attitude and swagger. I do not believe Ricky is the usual shrinking European violet we see so often. ; )
I too would take a chance on him but to me it's Wilson Chandler straight up for Ricky and nobody else. No Hill. No Douglas. The money works. The Wolves have issues at SF. Wilson is a proven NBA player with upside and as you say he is multi-talented and multi-faceted player. I am thinking it would be a PR nightmare for Minnesota to make this trade though. Outside of NY Wilson Chandler is not a name that brings star quality with it and Ricky Rubio, for all his warts and question marks, does have that star quality.
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Aug 21, 2009 13:45:56 GMT -5
Well Kenny I think we are going to trade either Lee or Will for him and both are goods guys,you have to give to get,Salary wise Lee would be the perfect trade for us,we keep the cap lower keeping Chandler's contract.I would get Rubio at all cost ,we need an impact pick and Rubio could be the straw that stirs Bill's Jamison and my Mohito.
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Aug 21, 2009 18:28:50 GMT -5
thing is Duhon, Douglas Nate(who after july 24th, the deadline passed on trading him this year unless he agrees to it and denounces the qualifying offer) and Rubio and no SG replacement behind Hughes for this year and beyond is a hard pill to swallow unless your going after Joe Johnson next year then I understand.
But Will for Rubio will leave us with flexibility holes as neither Duhon nor Douglas is anywhere close to a 2. Nate is a Knick unless the knicks renounce his rights outright ala Hakim Warrick.
I like a sneak attack of signing Sessions for 2.5mil to 4 mil per and then trading a qualifying D.Lee plus maybe Duhon for Rubio. Otherwise I'dd feel horrible if we gave Wilson who is our future for Rubio alone. SG has always been our weakness since houston got hurt but damn dont send the best backup or starter(depending on your perspective) away for a fourth PG.
What happens in 2011 when Deron or Paul are on the board? If any of us were GM I'd think long and hard about what we tarde away, which by the way wont even include Curry nor Jeffries.
Just my two cents.
-Jason
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