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Post by irish2u2 on Jul 23, 2009 13:19:30 GMT -5
I was reading Marc Stein's NBA gossip chatter on ESPN ( sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=Chatter-090723 ) and he intimated to watch out for Chicago in a sign and trade move for Lee. Say Lee gets his 10 million. Who do the Bulls have we might be interested in? What players on the roster have expiring contracts in 2010 which helps us? The Bulls only have one expiring contract and that would be Brad Miller and his 12.5 million this season. It works but the Knicks really only get a rental here and cap room. Call me greedy but I want both. Another name that fits is Kirk Hinrich but he is signed for 2 more years after this season. The one usual suspect is Tyrus Thomas. His contract, 4.75 million, plus a trade exception and cash likely gets it done. I would not be adverse to this deal as we save up to million of cap space for 2010 and Thomas is one of the league's best athletes, a higher flyer who can board, defend and score and getting better. Thoughts? |
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jul 23, 2009 13:44:41 GMT -5
Bill I'm tired of dealing with the Bulls. This can't be the only team we upgrade or rather downgrade our roster with is it? Too many headaches from the bulls. And I'm greedy too. And if Deng or the departed Ben Gordon wasn't on the menu then I'd REALLY rather eat at another restaurant.
-Jason
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Post by daglazer on Jul 23, 2009 14:29:43 GMT -5
I would trade Lee for Ty Thomas without hesitation. Thomas is already a good shotblocker and he has developed a nice jump shot. He played very well against Boston in the playoffs. Unless, the Bulls are stupid, I would be surprised if they made such a deal.
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Post by kgooglog on Jul 23, 2009 14:30:50 GMT -5
Jason...
I know that Bill and I share the same rugged good looks...
Let me weigh in on this intriguing proposition. I love Ty Thomas, who, if he comes with a trade exception plus cash, is even more appealing.
My question is simply this. Why would Chicago do this deal, if Ty is the player Walsh is gunning for? I'm thinking there is a draft pick tied to this rumor somewhere, somehow. I just cannot see the Bulls giving us anything more than garbage back in return for Dave.
Another thought I immediately had was a possible three-team deal...with, uh..Minnesota for one young Spanish PG?
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Post by kgooglog on Jul 23, 2009 15:09:15 GMT -5
Both Chicago and New York will have substantial cap room in the summer of 2010, so I started looking at the Bulls roster, and they have Kirk Hinrich's bloated deal on the books forever. If the Knicks are eyeing Tyrus Thomas, they had better be prepared to take on Hinrich's deal as well. This is one of two scenarios I can reasonably see Chicago taking part in. There is, however, a harsh reality which threatens the Bulls cap next season, which may actually benefit NY, and avoid the unpleasantries of what Hinrich deal will do to the Knicks cap.
Tyrus is an RFA next season, meaning the summer of Lebron and if the explosive Thomas improves on his already promising game, the Bulls will have to engage in some creative bookkeeping if they want to be serious players in the James sweepstakes. I feel that they may want David Lee in a sign and trade, but would like Donnie Walsh to get Lee to sign either the one year qualifying offer or, better yet, sign Lee for around $6.5 million a year for 4 or 5 years. This way Chicago has a PF in their pockets, thus avoiding what New York has been experiencing with David Lee this season.
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Post by irish2u2 on Jul 23, 2009 15:34:04 GMT -5
Keep in mind the Bulls are not totally enamored of Tyrus Thomas and he has been mentioned in multiple trade scenarios. Getting David Lee is no small accomplishment for the Bulls either who would love to have a rebounding, team oriented PF who leads by example. Leadership is an issue on the Bulls. Tyrus is talented but sometimes his play and focus drifts.... ; )
That said a three way deal also makes a lot of sense. Kudos to Ken, and that was Ken ; ), for the suggestion.
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Jul 23, 2009 15:35:42 GMT -5
I think we are underestamating Lee value,I think he will be a better teamate thanTy Thomas,I know thomas plays better dee but Lee has great team skills ,his passing and hustle,I think Chicago wants him because he's better,and Ty Thomas has rumors of being a headcase,Lee is a classy dude who is an asset off the court this can't be underestamated IMO when giving out large long term contracts.I think Lee has a good attitude of which we can't enough players and I put N8 in that category,fiesty players who will go threw a wall for you and sign autographs for the kids,Lee and N8 are keepers.
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Post by kgooglog on Jul 23, 2009 23:25:50 GMT -5
Keep in mind the Bulls are not totally enamored of Tyrus Thomas and he has been mentioned in multiple trade scenarios. Getting David Lee is no small accomplishment for the Bulls either who would love to have a rebounding, team oriented PF who leads by example. Leadership is an issue on the Bulls. Tyrus is talented but sometimes his play and focus drifts.... ; ) That said a three way deal also makes a lot of sense. Kudos to Ken, and that was Ken ; ), for the suggestion. Thank you, Bill, and kudos to you as well as to Rene for opening up the reality that I may be underestimating the value of one of the hardest workers in the NBA, one of the guys that leads by example, and, judging from my comrades, a player who the majority of us, do want to see on the Knicks. With the latest news on the Ramon Sessions rumored 5 year deal for the MLE, many more opportunities regarding Chicago and Tyrus Thomas and New York do become actual possibilities, at least for me. For one, one of Rene's favorites, and I am now discussing Nate Robinson for the moment being, is now being considered for a salary of $4 to $5 million, which makes it possible for an even up swap of players. Before Rene kills me, it was just a fleeting thought, and the initial rumblings of this entire rumor involved David Lee and not Nate. So, if I were Chicago management, and I want David Lee who can sign for the one year qualifying Knicks offer at $2.7 million, salaries must match up. They don't, with respect to a Ty Thomas for David Lee straight up deal. Unless Walsh offers up a package which is a one year qualifying offer of $5,000,000, which I am unsure is even allowable. I know that contracts can be front-loaded or back-loaded, but I did read on line that very strict parameters must be followed, lest circumvention of a team's salary cap becomes the rule, rather than the exception. I believe that, in either case, the annual amount of say, a $40,000,000 4 year deal must be within an 85% range. This was explained, if I recall, by Alan Hahn of Newsday with respect to David Lee's "willingness" to accept a lower salary in 2010-11, in order not to stifle New York's ability to sign free agents. Ironically, according to Hahn's research, the lessor amount does very little, if anything, when it comes to enabling a team to pursue other players from other teams... Now that I managed to confuse myself, I wish to go back to the only deal I see both teams even thinking about. However, this version has Chicago adding cash to a Tyrus Thomas deal for David Lee, up to $3,000,000. The two players can thus be traded even up for each other if Lee is inked to an $8,000,000 pact, one which may be in 3 to 4 year range... |
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Post by irish2u2 on Jul 23, 2009 23:58:28 GMT -5
It all depends on what Lee signs for in the end but the 3 million Chicago can add to make salaries match and maybe signing a guy to a one year deal for the rest gets the deal done.
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Post by kgooglog on Jul 24, 2009 3:06:16 GMT -5
Well, I did a little tinkering on RealGM, and came up with a trade that works;
NY trades a resigned David Lee for $10,000,000 (I needed to use Al Harrington's salary since Lee isn't listed) as well as Jared Jeffries to Chicago for
Tyrus Thomas and Brad Miller.
Now, being that Chicago won't be facing the RFA problem with Ty anymore, since NY took that unpleasant problem away, and getting Brad Miller's expiring contract and his expiring game as well, I think that Chicago actually gets a really good deal in acquiring two big guys who are under contract, one who is a solid near all-star in David Lee and a pretty versatile 6'10 guy in Jared Jeffries, who gives them that defensive presence out on the perimeter.
I know what some may be thinking with my inclusion of Jeffries, as a cap-savings for NY in 2010, and yes, there will be that element. However, we also need to be prepared to pay Tyrus Thomas more than his $6 million plus one year qualifying offer which will be in that crucial summer of 2010. Ty may be a bit of a looney tune, but the guy is heart and soul and wants to win. He is going to command $10,000,000 a year or more, and screw Bosh for laughing at us. Thomas will pimp-slap that Toronto softee and now that I think about it, to hell with CB4 and his subpar Turkoglu who isn't worth $53 dollars, let alone $53,000,000 for an old man forward.
We get our shot-blocking, rebounding, sky walker who will thrive on alley-opps from LeBron and Sessions and Chicago gets the leadership, stability, and day in and day out work ethic from the General. Jared Jeffries gives Chicago defense at 4 positions. Also, now that Brad Miller is off the Bulls cpa this season, they can make other deals--we are stuck with his 10 minute a game contribution all year.
This deal is perfect for both teams, as I think Chicago would be a better place for Lee to stake his claim to as leader. NY is just what Ty needs, as he has the young, athletic core in which he will be running, jumping, and slamming home the goal on a Mike D'Antoni team which Tyrus was made for.
Brad Miller, as I said, is simply a favor we are doing for the Bulls and for David Lee, who will get his $10,000,000 a year.
Damn, I cannot believe this took me so long to figure out the perfect trade for the General and for the Knicks...
PS: Screw you, Chris Bosh. After Tyrus spanks you for laughing at us, you can make him a sandwich...Mr. Softee.
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Post by greatgates on Jul 24, 2009 3:10:48 GMT -5
I would trade Lee for Ty Thomas without hesitation. Thomas is already a good shotblocker and he has developed a nice jump shot. He played very well against Boston in the playoffs. Unless, the Bulls are stupid, I would be surprised if they made such a deal. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Jul 24, 2009 10:56:43 GMT -5
Gates
Take a wildly athletic player who is still growing his skills and that low basketball IQ and surround him with smart coaches and teammates and what do you get?
Dennis Rodman. ; )
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Post by axios on Jul 24, 2009 11:32:59 GMT -5
I am down with Tyrus. You can put him next to fatso or anyone to make up for the D. I was impressed with his 12 ft shot he hit consistently in the playoffs. Kid has a chip on his shoulder as well. With him and Darko, the refs better hide their wives and daughters.  |
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Post by kgooglog on Jul 24, 2009 15:03:23 GMT -5
I am down with Tyrus. You can put him next to fatso or anyone to make up for the D. I was impressed with his 12 ft shot he hit consistently in the playoffs. Kid has a chip on his shoulder as well. With him and Darko, the refs better hide their wives and daughters. You know, Ax, now that you mention Darko, our diamond in the rough who does play defense, who does block shots, and who does board paired with Tyrus, I just do not see the opposition walking through the middle doing lay-up drills. Even without Ty, we have to give Walsh credit for getting a true pivot in Milicic for Q-Tip. I think that between Darko, Sene, Gallo, and, for argument's sake, Lee, we have a pretty nice front-court. Toss in Wilson Chandler, a big SG, who defends, blocks, boards, draws double-teams, steals, and one of our, as of yet, undetermined PGs, we have the makings of a much better squad than last year. Who knows? Maybe we get something out of Eddy Curry as well. |
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Post by axios on Jul 24, 2009 15:58:29 GMT -5
I personally think Darko has the makings of a great story. Perhaps not a #2- but at 24years old? he's another late draft pick with experience. The guy has a mean streak. He doesn't back down. I like his fire, it is something we havent had in a long time.
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