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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 9, 2021 15:28:54 GMT -5
Two summer league games. One win, one loss. I honestly don't care much about winning and losing in summer league though winning is better.  I am wondering why Wayne Seldon is starting but after seeing the first two games of Luca Vildoza and Rokas Jokubaitus I may retract the question.
First the "vets" IQ and Toppin. They are trying IQ more as a PG and he's done all right with 16 assists and 5 turnovers over two games. He needs some work on his handle but today he showed some good instincts penetrating and dishing. After a disastrous 30% shooting game against Toronto IQ rebounded with a very solid 32 points today against the Pacers. Obi Toppin had 2 games in a row over 20 points while rebounding 8.5 boards a game. Obi does have a habit of sometimes not using his length and playing small. Gather Obi! Gather!
Really just 3 other guys stand out. McBride is a baller. Love his toughness. Love his instincts and he can shoot. Grimes is a big physical guard. He had spots where he looked impressive too. I pride myself on talent evaluation and I told y'all Jericho Sims could be something. On the other hand I have said really good things about Vildoza and Jokubaitus so as of now I'm 66% full of BS on talent evaluation.
If the Knicks are serious at playing IQ at PG some then the pressure is off McBride. He, Grimes and Sims should have plenty of time to grow naturally. I do like what I see. McBride and Grimes can shoot and they are both tough, physical players as is Sims. Jericho was fantastic his first two pro games but he has to work on his hands. On the other hand he is 10-10 from the field.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 10, 2021 8:48:29 GMT -5
Jokabaitus is 20 and an international stash, so I’m not the least bit worried about him not looking ready, but Luca is a different problem and I seriously doubt he’s making the team based on what I’m seeing in the first two games. I’m a bit disappointed in the team makeup because the game is dominated by IQ and Obi, and we really need to see more of Grimes, McBride and Sims, I don’t need to see IQ and Obi taking all the shots, we know what they can do, although I understand they’re trying to look at IQ at the point. I’d actually
Iike to see IQ sit out a game so we can really see what Deuce, Luca and Jokabaitis look like with significant playing time.
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Aug 10, 2021 10:18:32 GMT -5
Jokabaitus is 20 and an international stash, so I’m not the least bit worried about him not looking ready, but Luca is a different problem and I seriously doubt he’s making the team based on what I’m seeing in the first two games. I’m a bit disappointed in the team makeup because the game is dominated by IQ and Obi, and we really need to see more of Grimes, McBride and Sims, I don’t need to see IQ and Obi taking all the shots, we know what they can do, although I understand they’re trying to look at IQ at the point. I’d actually Iike to see IQ sit out a game so we can really see what Deuce, Luca and Jokabaitis look like with significant playing time. I agree. |
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Post by ignitowsky on Aug 10, 2021 16:45:36 GMT -5
Jokabaitus is 20 and an international stash, so I’m not the least bit worried about him not looking ready, but Luca is a different problem and I seriously doubt he’s making the team based on what I’m seeing in the first two games. I’m a bit disappointed in the team makeup because the game is dominated by IQ and Obi, and we really need to see more of Grimes, McBride and Sims, I don’t need to see IQ and Obi taking all the shots, we know what they can do, although I understand they’re trying to look at IQ at the point. I’d actually Iike to see IQ sit out a game so we can really see what Deuce, Luca and Jokabaitis look like with significant playing time. I agree. I agree about Joka, but disagree about IQ, and especially Obi. We're going to be counting on both if them for bigger minutes and more production this year, and they need the work in real games. I also don't think that anything needs ti be done about the way Sims is being used. He's looking good as is. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 10, 2021 17:32:12 GMT -5
I have to agree with Iggy that IQ and Obi need to play especially since they missed summer league last season. 😎 Seriously they are rotational players. We need them to get better. If IQ can handle PG than McBride and Grimes have time to improve. Sims is another matter. Maybe. Given the injury history of Mitch and Noel he just might get some burn.
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Post by pearl on Aug 11, 2021 7:19:08 GMT -5
I believe Jericho Simms eventually will be the Knicks starting center. I mention this because Mitch will become a major trade asset for that super star player to get the Knicks to that next level.
Pearl
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 14, 2021 7:11:43 GMT -5
Have a feeling our ultimate starting center isn’t here yet, and answers to the name Myles Turner. Let’s see what happens though. My only impression from last night’s game is did Julius Randle just sign a max extension to be Obi Toppin’s backup?
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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 15, 2021 14:27:41 GMT -5
We are now 5 games into the summer league schedule with one more game to go tomorrow against the Hawks. Fitting.
Hard not to like what we have seen so far but first let's address our center position, Mitchell Robinson and Jericho Simms. I know there is a rumor out there about Myles Turner. Maybe it has traction but there is no way a trade happens till the December 15th deadline for newly signed free agents because Myles makes 18 million and the Knicks have to put up at least 15 million in contracts. There is no way to trade for Turner now without including players like Obi Toppin, IQ or even RJ Barrett.
I like Turner. He's a fine player. He also misses a lot of games and he's an average rebounder. Folks favor him because he has range but he's really just an average 3 point shooter. Mitch has range too. I have seen the videos of him shooting treys and he has good form and range. For whatever reason he doesn't show his offensive versatility in games but it's there. Waiting. IMHO Robinson is a key ingredient to the Knicks future. If he can stay healthy and realize his potential he could be a huge asset. If not this is the year to move on from him. I don't want the Knicks to gut their team for Myles Turner because I'm not convinced Turner makes the Knicks that much better. I'd rather let Noel be the starter and groom Sims who does have 3 point range and deal Robinson for a future first round pick. OR... just accept Mitch for what he is now which is a good defender/rebounder who can finish at the rim. Sims is raw but he gets burn because Mitch and Noel will miss games.
As already noted our summer squad features a few rotational players and some talented guys who will make the rotation in the future. So far Obi has been extremely impressive this summer as the 5th highest scorer and a top rebounder. IQ's scoring a lot of points but his shooting, especially his trademark 3 point shooting, has been below average. On the positive side IQ is showing some talent as a playmaker and both he and Obi are good defenders. We have 2 second year players improving leading up to an all important sophomore pro season. The Knicks have a ton of wing players in RJ, Alex, Fournier, Knox and Grimes so IQ showing he can handle PG is important to allow for maximum variations on the rotation but IMHO there is also a plan in place for the future.
We have two older PGs in Kemba and Rose and I see more than glimpses of enormous potential in Miles McBride's game. His two way ability is superlative and while his FG% in college wasn't super high Miles was also the prime scorer for WVU and often took shots he might normally pass on because somebody had to score. Aside from big man Derek Culver who stayed in the paint nobody else on that Mountaineer team was a better option than Miles. In all the draft profiles it is noted that McBride has an exceptional midrange game and can finish but he took a lot of forced shots. With decent shooters around him McBride is an above average shooter as his 50% FG and 46% 3 point shooting this summer shows. We already know McBride can play defense and shoot the trey. He needs work on ball handling and playmaking but the IQ and instincts are there as well as a work ethic that fits the Knicks like a glove.
Quentin Grimes has played much better lately and what I like about him is his pure shooting stroke and his physicality. He isn't a Zach LaVine athletic freak but he is strong and he has excellent footwork. The kid is smart and can defend and extend defenses. He needs work on the handle too but he has a place in the rotation down the road but as noted there established players before him. I take note of the length of contracts for Burks and Kemba so 2-3 years the Knicks expect McBride and Grimes to be major rotational contributors.
Jericho Sims is a project. But he has all the physical tools you want out of a big and he's more than coachable. He is more likely to get thrown into the fire than Miles or Grimes but the Knicks have some vets to help him along with Coach Kenny Payne. The point here is the Knicks go 3 deep with GOOD players. Depth means a lot in the NBA and the Knicks have depth. It should also be noted that our rookies are playing as well or even better than other rookies picked higher than them. Our talent evaluation has been excellent the last 2 years though I note how Miami did it it again with Turkish big Omer Yurtseven who is averaging 20 and 10 in summer league play and Max Strus. Where do they find these guys?
What I like most about this Knicks summer league team is how hard they compete. They were down 21 against Detroit and fought their way all the way back though still losing. It's summer league and I have watched other teams revert to individual play when the game seemed out of hand. Instead of auditioning as individuals the Knicks kids played together. BTW, speaking of kids I note how Portland has fielded Michael Beasley, Emmanuel Mudiay and Kenneth Faried on their summer league team. Beasley is 32, Faried is 31 and Mudiay is the baby of the gang at 25.
Looking at other players aside from the geriatric Blazers and Miami's Mad Turk I have been impressed with the lottery players though Evan Mobley is a little less impressive than I thought. Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs, and Jalen Green have all been impressive but the guy I like most is Toronto's Scottie Barnes. The kid is a baller and he's a winner. Duke's Jalen Smith has had some highlight moments but he takes a lot of bad shots and misses his teammates who are open. Good call DA.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 16, 2021 17:01:28 GMT -5
I cannot believe that Mudiay is still only 25! That’s pretty much equal to the amount of teams he’s played for in his NBA career. Remember when fans were angry he was starting over Frank and Dennis Smith Jr? Who would have thought it would turn that all three of them stink! Michael Beasley was on the team at that time too, and regaled the young point guards with his stories about playing against Jerry West and Nat “Sweetwater” Clifton. As for Turner vs Mitch, until Mitch takes a shot other than a dunk in an NBA game and it actually goes in, you can’t compare the two. Also, although Myles is not a good rebounder for his size, neither is Mitch. And Turner actually led the league in blocked shots last year to go with his ability to shoot the ball. The only argument you can make for Mitch is that Turner makes 17 million and Mitch just 1.8. However that will change next year when Mitch becomes a free agent. At the deadline if the deal is essentially Mitch plus picks and cap filler for Turner, unless Mitch has made significant progress by that time it’s a no brainer for the Knicks.
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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 16, 2021 20:01:29 GMT -5
Mitch averages 11.8 rebounds per 40 minutes. Turner averages 8.4. 😎 Mitch also led the NBA in FG%. 😎
Check out Mitch’s YouTube practice videos. He has a lot more game than we see. 😎
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Post by greatgates36 on Aug 16, 2021 21:40:01 GMT -5
I cannot believe that Mudiay is still only 25! That’s pretty much equal to the amount of teams he’s played for in his NBA career. Remember when fans were angry he was starting over Frank and Dennis Smith Jr? Who would have thought it would turn that all three of them stink! Michael Beasley was on the team at that time too, and regaled the young point guards with his stories about playing against Jerry West and Nat “Sweetwater” Clifton. As for Turner vs Mitch, until Mitch takes a shot other than a dunk in an NBA game and it actually goes in, you can’t compare the two. Also, although Myles is not a good rebounder for his size, neither is Mitch. And Turner actually led the league in blocked shots last year to go with his ability to shoot the ball. The only argument you can make for Mitch is that Turner makes 17 million and Mitch just 1.8. However that will change next year when Mitch becomes a free agent. At the deadline if the deal is essentially Mitch plus picks and cap filler for Turner, unless Mitch has made significant progress by that time it’s a no brainer for the Knicks.
There is no Turner vs Mitch. Mitch has had more coaches than jump shots attempted. Even Nerlens will attempt a short jumper occassionally. Know who Turner would help? Randle. Clint Capella never left the paint against Nerlens or Taj and he wont leave it against Mitch. Defensive 3 seconds call on Capella? He stayed in the paint for 20 minutes. He got his mail and pizza delivered into the paint. And you are correct twin. If we cant make a deal until later that is fine. But Mitch's jumpers made number has to pass his agents fired number. |
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Post by greatgates36 on Aug 16, 2021 21:47:34 GMT -5
Mitch averages 11.8 rebounds per 40 minutes. Turner averages 8.4. 😎 Mitch also led the NBA in FG%. 😎 Check out Mitch’s YouTube practice videos. He has a lot more game than we see. 😎 |
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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 17, 2021 10:40:20 GMT -5
Mitch averages 11.8 rebounds per 40 minutes. Turner averages 8.4. 😎 Mitch also led the NBA in FG%. 😎 Check out Mitch’s YouTube practice videos. He has a lot more game than we see. 😎
I believe wholeheartedly that Mitch has a lot more game than we have seen but with equal conviction I can also say Mitch is an enigma in so many areas especially character. I hear tell he's got some jerk advising him so that may be the problem. For me the problem in the Turner-Robinson debate is that Myles makes 10 times what Mitchell makes and the cost to acquire Myles in players and cap flexibility isn't worth the price to the Knicks. Now if you are talking Karl Anthony Towns, another guy with some questionable character, at least he brings some big time skills to the table.
One more year. Give Mitch one more season to prove he is worth a big extension. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Aug 17, 2021 12:01:10 GMT -5
So I watched the impressive last summer league game against Atlanta. Impressive win with a whopping 21 treys made in a 40 minute game. Wowsers!!! You could tell the kids wanted to win and frankly I'm happy we took McBride over Cooper though he is an impressive player too. But not so much last night.
IQ looked awful. I hope he tightens up his shooting some before the season begins or he will lose his spot in the rotation to a combination of Quentin Grimes and Miles McBride. Both showed they could be the co-steals of the draft. Both have beautiful Allan Houston/Klay Thompson like jumpers which is great but you also have to take and make those shots against NBA caliber defenders. AND be willing to take those shots. Frankie's shot was purdy too. We shall see but so far color me impressed and I should include almost Mr. Irrelevant Jericho Sims too. He's raw but the physical talent there is extraordinary. Besides these guys and Obi and IQ nobody else on the summer team is more or less camp fodder.
Camp begins on September 28th. The regular season starts on October 19th. Everybody that is important is signed and ready to go.
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Post by greatgates36 on Aug 17, 2021 12:50:50 GMT -5
But Bill he NEVER takes a shot. NEVER. NEVER EVER. I dont believe 3 different coaches told him to NEVER take a shot. And if they did then they may know something. Many times I've seen him at the elbow trying to hand off while screening. If unable to make the handoff he has turned toward the basket from 16 and no one is defending him. Hell Ben Simmons would take THAT shot. Not Mitch, he'll pull a Ntilikina and beg for someone to pass to. I wouldnt be that mad if he missed but he has to shoot.
I believe wholeheartedly that Mitch has a lot more game than we have seen but with equal conviction I can also say Mitch is an enigma in so many areas especially character. I hear tell he's got some jerk advising him so that may be the problem. For me the problem in the Turner-Robinson debate is that Myles makes 10 times what Mitchell makes and the cost to acquire Myles in players and cap flexibility isn't worth the price to the Knicks. Now if you are talking Karl Anthony Towns, another guy with some questionable character, at least he brings some big time skills to the table.
One more year. Give Mitch one more season to prove he is worth a big extension. I'm certainly willing to give Mitch part of next season. But my belief is the starters offense goes way up if he can step out and make a shot. The other four likely starters can all shoot and drive. More space means much more efficiency. |
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I am wondering why Wayne Seldon is starting but after seeing the first two games of Luca Vildoza and Rokas Jokubaitus I may retract the question. 
