Sort of a busy night

[irish2u2]

All that hoopla leading up to free agency and it feels like the Knicks made a minor upgrade and not much more. But there is more.

First the roster as it now stands knowing full well more moves will be made.

Center: Mitchell Robinson, Nerlens Noel and Jericho Sims

Forwards: Julius Randle, Obi Toppin, Kevin Knox, Aamir Simms and RJ BARRETT

Guards: Derrick Rose, Evan Fournier, Alec Burks, Immanuel Quickley, Luca Vildoza, Quentin Grimes and Miles McBride. 

First impressions after tonight is there is still work to be done and the Knicks are far from done. I think a major trade is in the future though maybe not a blockbuster. The Knicks still have 10 million in cap space and they have the over 9 million non luxury tax payer MLE which cannot be used in a trade. We all know who I want and not a whisper about that player tonight from any of the news sources.   We may have to be patient to see how this all works out but for the meantime some thoughts about tonight. 

The Knicks gave 28 year old SG Evan Fournier a 4 year/78 million dollar contract. Most definitely Fournier is an upgrade over Reggie Bullock. He is a more consistent, more natural scorer with the ability to get his own shot and he's an excellent three point shooter. I would have preferred Norman Powell but all things considered Evan is a good player who adds scoring to a team that needs scoring. More importantly maybe he moves RJ to SF because RJ is bigger, stronger and a much better rebounder than Fournier.  

The Knicks brought back the three free agents I wanted in Rose, Burks and Noel. I must now note how widely athletic the Knicks are at the center position with Mitch, Nerlens and Sims and how ordinary they are everywhere else.   But one thing the Knicks do have are shooters. They also have depth. 

Of all the rookies maybe McBride gets the most burn and possible a position in the rotation but I suspect there is another PG in the near future. It won't be Dinwiddie though and this is a case of happiness via subtraction. I could have gotten behind Lowry and DeRozan and a few others but not Dinwiddie. 

Some surprises. 4 years/120 million for a 36 year old Chris Paul? 3 years/90 million for Kyle Lowry? How about 100 million for Jarrett Allen and 90 million for Duncan Robinson? Wowsers!! 

Obviously Colin Sexton is out there. So too is Dennis Schroder. One or the other might become the next Knicks PG but let's go with my choice, Sexton, at my price Knox and 2 number 1's. Evan is in his prime and signed for 4 years. Randle likely gets extended this summer. RJ is on his rookie deal and everybody else is here for 3 years. I think THIS Knicks team is vastly improved (with Sexton) but still nowhere near championship caliber unless some of the kids improve vastly (RJ especially) and one of the new draft guys is a Jimmy Butler.   But the Knicks are a playoff team and if they don't have a lot of star power they still are dangerous. With another scorer who can play PG. 

[ReneNYG1]

Good news I heard with the Rose deal they used the ML exemption money so we have more to spend.THT baby

[greatgates36]

Aug 2, 2021 22:02:04 GMT -5 irish2u2 said:

All that hoopla leading up to free agency and it feels like the Knicks made a minor upgrade and not much more. But there is more.

First the roster as it now stands knowing full well more moves will be made.

Center: Mitchell Robinson, Nerlens Noel and Jericho Sims

Forwards: Julius Randle, Obi Toppin, Kevin Knox, Aamir Simms and RJ BARRETT

Guards: Derrick Rose, Evan Fournier, Alec Burks, Immanuel Quickley, Luca Vildoza, Quentin Grimes and Miles McBride. 

First impressions after tonight is there is still work to be done and the Knicks are far from done. I think a major trade is in the future though maybe not a blockbuster. The Knicks still have 10 million in cap space and they have the over 9 million non luxury tax payer MLE which cannot be used in a trade. We all know who I want and not a whisper about that player tonight from any of the news sources.   We may have to be patient to see how this all works out but for the meantime some thoughts about tonight. 

The Knicks gave 28 year old SG Evan Fournier a 4 year/78 million dollar contract. Most definitely Fournier is an upgrade over Reggie Bullock. He is a more consistent, more natural scorer with the ability to get his own shot and he's an excellent three point shooter. I would have preferred Norman Powell but all things considered Evan is a good player who adds scoring to a team that needs scoring. More importantly maybe he moves RJ to SF because RJ is bigger, stronger and a much better rebounder than Fournier.  

The Knicks brought back the three free agents I wanted in Rose, Burks and Noel. I must now note how widely athletic the Knicks are at the center position with Mitch, Nerlens and Sims and how ordinary they are everywhere else.   But one thing the Knicks do have are shooters. They also have depth. 

Of all the rookies maybe McBride gets the most burn and possible a position in the rotation but I suspect there is another PG in the near future. It won't be Dinwiddie though and this is a case of happiness via subtraction. I could have gotten behind Lowry and DeRozan and a few others but not Dinwiddie. 

Some surprises. 4 years/120 million for a 36 year old Chris Paul? 3 years/90 million for Kyle Lowry? How about 100 million for Jarrett Allen and 90 million for Duncan Robinson? Wowsers!! 

Obviously Colin Sexton is out there. So too is Dennis Schroder. One or the other might become the next Knicks PG but let's go with my choice, Sexton, at my price Knox and 2 number 1's. Evan is in his prime and signed for 4 years. Randle likely gets extended this summer. RJ is on his rookie deal and everybody else is here for 3 years. I think THIS Knicks team is vastly improved (with Sexton) but still nowhere near championship caliber unless some of the kids improve vastly (RJ especially) and one of the new draft guys is a Jimmy Butler.   But the Knicks are a playoff team and if they don't have a lot of star power they still are dangerous. With another scorer who can play PG. 

I figure we will add Taj soon.

[axios]

We have the same team that got roasted by Atlanta ,a logjam at the guard position with no true PG, other than a rookie with a coach who doesn't play rookies. I waited two years so we can watch Noel and Fournier play, can't wait.

[irish2u2]

Aug 3, 2021 2:34:34 GMT -5 axios said:

We have the same team that got roasted by Atlanta ,a logjam at the guard position with no true PG, other than a rookie with a coach who doesn't play rookies. I waited two years so we can watch Noel and Fournier play, can't wait.

Day One Brother. 😎 Still 2 months and more roster moves to be made before training camp begins. 😎 BTW, Fournier wasn’t my first choice but he can score, he can shoot and he can create to get his shot. Just him, a healthy Mitch Robinson and the uber pesky McBride make the Knicks better.

[rxmeister]

Bill, I think your number is close to correct on cap space, but I saw repeatedly last night that we don’t have the MLE for some reason but we have the smaller room exception. I think the Knicks have created such a logjam at certain positions that I don’t see how additional players don’t do anything but make it worse. All for a coach that doesn’t use his bench! I love DRose and am not a big fan of Schroeder, but considering the age and knees, the Knicks could have changed my whole perception of the off season by signing Dennis instead. Now we essentially have the same team with Fournier replacing Bullock, and of course, the rookies we brought in that have little chance of playing with the signings of last night. It’s a first round playoff team and how much further does Fournier get you? Not even sure it’s out of the first round. Now the Knicks go forward with no cap space and are just good enough that they won’t be able to draft a star. I’ll enjoy watching them play during the season, but I think they blew it last night. The only route to becoming a contender now is trading these contracts for a disgruntled superstar, and last night showed me once again that NY is not a desired site. Everyone wants to go to LA or Miami. And finally my perception of Leon Rose and his crew has changed. He was outmaneuvered all night by teams with no cap space and those teams showed smarts and inventiveness while he just spent down to zero.

[axios]

I agree Fournier gives us a legit scorer, and he’s better than Bullock. I wouldn’t have signed Noel, or Burkes. Let the kids play, keep your cap space and grow the kids worth. Knox should have been playing last year. This is Merri-Go round if thibs doesn’t start playing the youth and making them into assets. I would have taken Wall or Derozen over Noel, Burkes and Fournier.

[irish2u2]

Trust the process!! If we have learned anything about Leon Rose it is the has a plan and what happened draft night and last night is all part of a calculated plan with a calculated timeline of success. Let's parse what Rose has done so far. 

EVERYBODY knew Rose was not going to keep both first round picks and failing to be able to move up he moved out adding future picks and getting the two guys it is rumored he would have taken with picks 19 and 21. Until they were drafted and we all did a little research only McBride was remotely on our radar and yet after a few profiles and YouTube videos it looks like we got a couple of real players. Players that can get minutes now but won't be thrown into the fire. BTW, more than one draft expert has called Rokas Jukabaitus the "steal of the draft". Lots of buzz about this kid and he's content growing his already good game in Europe for a season or two. And don't get me started on Jericho Sims! 

How about last night? NONE of the deals brokered by Rose last night falls into the "untradeable" category meaning while all these players have value to the Knicks team they also retain value as trade chips. If you don't think the Knicks are improved right now you haven't truly evaluated Rose, Burks and Noel's value to the team nor have you considered the message sent of future free agents after seeing Rose reward these three players for their efforts last season. He kept the three guys he should have kept. And if a monster trade does come up Fournier and either Burks or Noel gets us into the superstar level of salary. For instance if the Knicks do go for Lillard they have the necessary salary to send out for him in players who still have value on the court. Plus a plethora of draft picks which are the real currency of the modern NBA. 

Now let's talk about Fournier. All over the NBA last night various players were getting way over paid. 90 million for Powell? I liked him but haven't mentioned him much lately because I knew he was sticking with the Blazers. They HAD to keep Powell if they want to keep Lillard. After securing Lowry you knew the Heat would overpay to keep Duncan Robinson. 100 million for Jarrett Allen? When you just drafted Evan Mobley? And so on and so forth. The Knicks went after Fournier because he is in the prime of his career and his skillset dovetails with what the Knicks are trying to do by adding scoring and maintaining a bunch of three point snipers. Fournier does things Bullock could not do. Reggie was a one or two step and shoot type player. Fournier has an arsenal of moves to get his shot. Plus Fournier has more of that scorer's mentality the Knicks need. 

DeMar DeRozan also has that scorer's mentality. DeRozan would cost more and he isn't a 3 point shooter. Plus he is older. The cost for Fournier is in line with what Fournier brings to the table. The only reason he isn't a Celtic is money. They wanted him but couldn't afford him and that makes sense because they have two great players getting paid big bucks and right now they are at the luxury tax threshold. 

I don't think last night was Plan A for Leon Rose but it certainly wasn't a Hail Mary either. Plus to repeat my mantra the Knicks are not done yet tinkering with their roster. They will hit the trade market. They will use their exception and mostly they still have financial flexibility. No Knick contract is a black hole and next season, finally, Joakim Noah comes off the books. 

Meanwhile Bobby Bonilla still gets paid. 

[greatgates36]

I don't think it was plan A. It was a good plan B. Play the kids? IQ played. Why? Because he was good enough. Kevin and Frank weren't.

Most of last year they started only 2 guys that could get their own shot. This year they start four. That is an improvement. So Cade Cunningham didn't fall to nineteen and we couldn't trade Knox and Ntilikina for Dame Lilliard. I think we got incrementally better and sometimes that is ok.

Finally Burks, Rose, and Noel helped us win a lot of games last season.

[ReneNYG1]

Ilike what we did because our team was not healthy last year,this year we have Rose the whole year and Mitch.Also Thibs year two should be aqlot better knowing what he has in players and with a full camp to get team right.Noel should be fresher towards the end with backup minutes.Deuce should give Rose enough spell as to not burn him out.
Going forward;
Just two trades I want.
1- Trade Mitch and two first rounders for Turner.
He gives us the ability to spread floor with three point shot and elite defender.
2-Trade two first rounders/Knox for Sexton.
I think the number one deal is necessary the number two is not as both Sexton and Brunson will be totally free next year.

[jbnewyork162]

My hot take is we might regret not getting Lonzo Ball, who goes to Chicago and may be the key to what Lavine may need to resign this year.

We could've used a young tandem at the 1 to go with Rose and Mcbride.

I like Fournier but we took the highest cap and basically ran it back. So in another draft we will pick in the late teens/ early 20s and may be another first round exit. We certainly didn't get up to the level of the Hawks and even the Heat and Celtics aren't going to be below us now.

I don't know what to make of getting essentially the same players back.

I see less playing time for Quickley and Grimes who I'm sure BOTH should play because Burks and Fornier are here.

And then finally our coach all year goes 9 man rotation.

Honestly I'm a little nervous if this is it for the year.

We gave Charlotte an extra first rounder and they definitely got better, but when New Orleans gave the same team a first rounder they got Devontae Graham. He would've been a perfect young starting PG.

Miami and Boston got better so now I feel that unless theirs injuries we may be looking at the play in tournament.

Just my gut feeling is because we stayed the course and everyone else got better we might miss the playoffs or have the play in only but not be good enough for a top 5 pick.

We'll see

[ReneNYG1]

Gates you called it on the money Taj coming back cheap.

[greatgates36]

Aug 3, 2021 11:24:16 GMT -5 jbnewyork162 said:

My hot take is we might regret not getting Lonzo Ball, who goes to Chicago and may be the key to what Lavine may need to resign this year.

We could've used a young tandem at the 1 to go with Rose and Mcbride.

I like Fournier but we took the highest cap and basically ran it back. So in another draft we will pick in the late teens/ early 20s and may be another first round exit. We certainly didn't get up to the level of the Hawks and even the Heat and Celtics aren't going to be below us now.

I don't know what to make of getting essentially the same players back.

I see less playing time for Quickley and Grimes who I'm sure BOTH should play because Burks and Fornier are here.

And then finally our coach all year goes 9 man rotation.

Honestly I'm a little nervous if this is it for the year.

We gave Charlotte an extra first rounder and they definitely got better, but when New Orleans gave the same team a first rounder they got Devontae Graham. He would've been a perfect young starting PG.

Miami and Boston got better so now I feel that unless theirs injuries we may be looking at the play in tournament.

Just my gut feeling is because we stayed the course and everyone else got better we might miss the playoffs or have the play in only but not be good enough for a top 5 pick.

We'll see

Certainly understand your valid point. But i'm not sure that Lonzo wanted us more than Chicago. Also dont see us having a Graham to send back. Gotta figure New Orleans didnt want Frank or Elfrid. Yes we may well have fallen behind Atlanta and Miami. But sometimes it is a two steps forward one step back world ( standings wise not talent wise). But those 2 steps forward were more like 8 steps back. IQ will play. Frank and Elfrid probably wont.