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Post by trendsetta on Jun 15, 2021 17:44:07 GMT -5
So I get how you and others are looking at percentages on paper about who shot better than who right? Well did RJ didn't shoot as many 3s as Robinson or Seth Curry. So when we only look at percentages vs the nuance of how MANY 3s a player is taken in comparison, yes the percentages are going to be lower. Now you want to add Powell which is fine and I want a shooter that plays defense and works hard and creates his own shot, and Robinson is all 3. Whether we add Powell and/or Robinson to Bullock and Burks or to replace them remains to be seen. I want to maintain if not get better than the 5-7 games that we lost this year because all of our "shooters" couldn't buy a bucket and we only relied on Randle for the last shot. Robinson has taken many clutch and last shots despite the fact Herro and Butler are there. I watch this team unfortunately because I live down here. I don't want to just bring ALL of the guys back while everyone below us like Boston and Charlotte and others get better by improving the talent. Even if we strike put for swinging a blockbuster trade this summer which is likely I want to replace Payton maybe Frank and others WITH better talent. My last point on the 3 point shooting is by definition Frank is one of the best ones on the team but he averaged less than 10 mins a game. So with context of the fact RJ usually attempted 4 and made 2, Randle attempts 10 and make 3 or 4, these are not PURE shooters, they just have the corner or elbow 3 in their arsenal. We didn't even offer anything to Joe Harris and he has been a revelation for the Nyets this year because KD AND Harden and Kyrie make it easy for him to make comfortable pure threes from everywhere when they get doubled. That's all I'm saying. He might not want to even leave Miami put you put in an offer to a guy like that for the same reasons you think Powell can improve a team. Better talent.  Both are average athletes and I want the Knicks to improve their athleticism. I too want to improve the Knicks overall talent.
I like Powell because he does more than Reggie or Duncan and he will likely be cheaper. He's also the uber athlete I covet. I like Reggie more than Robinson because he will be a LOT cheaper. Rather than attempting to poach Robinson and Nunn why not hire the guy who scouted them along with Herro and Adebayo. That sounds like a better plan. Or we could just re-hire Clarence Gaines...
I'd pay more money to Duncan Robinson to replace Bullock if I am Rose. As I said to Gates, Robinson has a purer stroke and with better footwork. That usually translates to more consistency game over game. As everybody knows I am a defense-first guy and as it turns out Bullock and Robinson have comparable defensive ratings in terms of DRPM. But a healthy Mitchell Robinson makes a player like Bullock more expendable. Think block to fast break to pull-up three: who would you rather see hoist one up in that scenario? Powell strikes me as a nice Swiss Army knife, glue-y player. Always good to have such a player but I wonder what he'd command league-wide and whether the Knicks are in a position to potentially overpay for a 3rd option or bench solidifier. But hey they have a shit-ton of $$$ so maybe you build by overpaying role players and make the Knicks a more attractive spot for a superb player in 2022? |
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Post by trendsetta on Jun 15, 2021 18:14:36 GMT -5
Just to keep things objective 3 Knicks shot treys better than Duncan Robinson (Burks, Julius and Bullock) and one (RJ) was just behind. Seth Curry was on another planet. So I get how you and others are looking at percentages on paper about who shot better than who right? Well did RJ didn't shoot as many 3s as Robinson or Seth Curry. So when we only look at percentages vs the nuance of how MANY 3s a player is taken in comparison, yes the percentages are going to be lower. Now you want to add Powell which is fine and I want a shooter that plays defense and works hard and creates his own shot, and Robinson is all 3. Whether we add Powell and/or Robinson to Bullock and Burks or to replace them remains to be seen. I want to maintain if not get better than the 5-7 games that we lost this year because all of our "shooters" couldn't buy a bucket and we only relied on Randle for the last shot. Robinson has taken many clutch and last shots despite the fact Herro and Butler are there. I watch this team unfortunately because I live down here. I don't want to just bring ALL of the guys back while everyone below us like Boston and Charlotte and others get better by improving the talent. Even if we strike out for swinging a blockbuster trade this summer which is likely I want to replace Payton maybe Frank and others WITH better talent. My last point on the 3 point shooting is by definition Frank is one of the best ones on the team but he averaged less than 10 mins a game. So with context of the fact RJ usually attempted 4 and made 2, Randle attempts 10 and make 3 or 4, these are not PURE shooters, they just have the corner or elbow 3 in their arsenal. We didn't even offer anything to Joe Harris and he has been a revelation for the Nyets this year because KD AND Harden and Kyrie make it easy for him to make comfortable pure threes from everywhere when they get doubled. That's all I'm saying. He might not want to even leave Miami but you put in an offer to a guy like that for the same reasons you think Powell can improve a team. Better talent. Robinson is preferable to Bullock for sure, even for more $$$. Harris is what we call a pure shooter, he and Robinson and Ray Allen and Reggie Miller, etc. etc. And we had a dude who had that 3-point shot with the cowboy belt move, right? Flourished alongside Jeremy Lin and also IIRC the Melo-centric Knicks. Again, pure stroke. Knicks need that type of player and it doesn't hurt that Robinson ranks up there in DRPM, similar to Bullock. I think you re-sign Burks for now instead of going after Powell. I like Burks's scrappiness and better all-around game than Bullocks's. PS It wouldn't be bad if IQ became more consistent. he should be shooting 500 threes a day this summer, and from all over the place, be it catch and shoot or pull ups. That sort of Curry-esque game is a killer-- provided consistency and efficiency. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 18:40:14 GMT -5
The Miami salary situation is much more flexible than Portland who has 100 million dollars committed to just Dame, CJ, Covington,and Nurkic. CJ is signed 3 more years at 100 million. In these post COVID times where every team is drowning in red ink even a great player like CJ won't be easy to trade especially coming off a shortened season where he missed 25 games and turns 30 right before the season starts. Miami has a team option of 15 million on Iguodala and 19 million on Dragic who are 37 and 35 respectfully and they are already under the cap projections for next season. Signing Powell puts Portland into luxury tax territory and while they are owned by the Allen family they are NOT owned by the Ballmer family.
But none of this matters if we remember the two main premises of this Knicks off season.
Trust the management.
Get more talent. |
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jun 15, 2021 20:02:04 GMT -5
So I get how you and others are looking at percentages on paper about who shot better than who right? Well did RJ didn't shoot as many 3s as Robinson or Seth Curry. So when we only look at percentages vs the nuance of how MANY 3s a player is taken in comparison, yes the percentages are going to be lower. Now you want to add Powell which is fine and I want a shooter that plays defense and works hard and creates his own shot, and Robinson is all 3. Whether we add Powell and/or Robinson to Bullock and Burks or to replace them remains to be seen. I want to maintain if not get better than the 5-7 games that we lost this year because all of our "shooters" couldn't buy a bucket and we only relied on Randle for the last shot. Robinson has taken many clutch and last shots despite the fact Herro and Butler are there. I watch this team unfortunately because I live down here. I don't want to just bring ALL of the guys back while everyone below us like Boston and Charlotte and others get better by improving the talent. Even if we strike out for swinging a blockbuster trade this summer which is likely I want to replace Payton maybe Frank and others WITH better talent. My last point on the 3 point shooting is by definition Frank is one of the best ones on the team but he averaged less than 10 mins a game. So with context of the fact RJ usually attempted 4 and made 2, Randle attempts 10 and make 3 or 4, these are not PURE shooters, they just have the corner or elbow 3 in their arsenal. We didn't even offer anything to Joe Harris and he has been a revelation for the Nyets this year because KD AND Harden and Kyrie make it easy for him to make comfortable pure threes from everywhere when they get doubled. That's all I'm saying. He might not want to even leave Miami but you put in an offer to a guy like that for the same reasons you think Powell can improve a team. Better talent. Robinson is preferable to Bullock for sure, even for more $$$. Harris is what we call a pure shooter, he and Robinson and Ray Allen and Reggie Miller, etc. etc. And we had a dude who had that 3-point shot with the cowboy belt move, right? Flourished alongside Jeremy Lin and also IIRC the Melo-centric Knicks. Again, pure stroke. Knicks need that type of player and it doesn't hurt that Robinson ranks up there in DRPM, similar to Bullock. I think you re-sign Burks for now instead of going after Powell. I like Burks's scrappiness and better all-around game than Bullocks's. PS It wouldn't be bad if IQ became more consistent. he should be shooting 500 threes a day this summer, and from all over the place, be it catch and shoot or pull ups. That sort of Curry-esque game is a killer-- provided consistency and efficiency. I agree. But I also hope that Rose and WES have an inside track on someone we're not seeing or talking about. We are a product of our own success. We can't go back to the lotto now that we set the bar of 4th or better. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 1:50:15 GMT -5
I actually think Dame or Beal gets us more stars, however I'm not so willing to give up Mitch yet. Pearl. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 2:04:23 GMT -5
So I get how you and others are looking at percentages on paper about who shot better than who right? Well did RJ didn't shoot as many 3s as Robinson or Seth Curry. So when we only look at percentages vs the nuance of how MANY 3s a player is taken in comparison, yes the percentages are going to be lower. Now you want to add Powell which is fine and I want a shooter that plays defense and works hard and creates his own shot, and Robinson is all 3. Whether we add Powell and/or Robinson to Bullock and Burks or to replace them remains to be seen. I want to maintain if not get better than the 5-7 games that we lost this year because all of our "shooters" couldn't buy a bucket and we only relied on Randle for the last shot. Robinson has taken many clutch and last shots despite the fact Herro and Butler are there. I watch this team unfortunately because I live down here. I don't want to just bring ALL of the guys back while everyone below us like Boston and Charlotte and others get better by improving the talent. Even if we strike out for swinging a blockbuster trade this summer which is likely I want to replace Payton maybe Frank and others WITH better talent. My last point on the 3 point shooting is by definition Frank is one of the best ones on the team but he averaged less than 10 mins a game. So with context of the fact RJ usually attempted 4 and made 2, Randle attempts 10 and make 3 or 4, these are not PURE shooters, they just have the corner or elbow 3 in their arsenal. We didn't even offer anything to Joe Harris and he has been a revelation for the Nyets this year because KD AND Harden and Kyrie make it easy for him to make comfortable pure threes from everywhere when they get doubled. That's all I'm saying. He might not want to even leave Miami but you put in an offer to a guy like that for the same reasons you think Powell can improve a team. Better talent. Robinson is preferable to Bullock for sure, even for more $$$. Harris is what we call a pure shooter, he and Robinson and Ray Allen and Reggie Miller, etc. etc. And we had a dude who had that 3-point shot with the cowboy belt move, right? Flourished alongside Jeremy Lin and also IIRC the Melo-centric Knicks. Again, pure stroke. Knicks need that type of player and it doesn't hurt that Robinson ranks up there in DRPM, similar to Bullock. I think you re-sign Burks for now instead of going after Powell. I like Burks's scrappiness and better all-around game than Bullocks's. PS It wouldn't be bad if IQ became more consistent. he should be shooting 500 threes a day this summer, and from all over the place, be it catch and shoot or pull ups. That sort of Curry-esque game is a killer-- provided consistency and efficiency.
Burks' all around game is (to me) also much better than Reggie's. Unlike Bullock he can actually create his own shots. Reggie has improved though in coming off screens going to his right for 3 pointers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 2:14:30 GMT -5
I'm watching Seth Curry and I get your idea of a tremendous as opposed to good shooter. Bullock is a very good shooter and the opponent game plan has to be' "make sure you are aware of where he is. . But Seth or Duncan Robinson are different. The writing on the chalkboard is "don't leave him, YOU have NO help responsibilities. You say that about Curry brothers and Robinson because their strokes are so smooth and pure, right? No hitches in the upper body and great footwork = consistency and efficiency every game. It's one thing with percentages on paper but if you blow hot and cold from game to game then 40% from downtown is very deceiving. Cannot think of a single "pure shooter" on the roster. Why is that, Gates? Never mind about the D of these players for now. So yeah we don't have one of those pure shooters but boy we sure could use one. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 16, 2021 17:04:27 GMT -5
On our team, IMHO, Julius has the prettiest 3 point jumper followed closely by RJ. Bullock's shot, while effective, is too flat and both Burks and IQ don't always set their feet right. Obi and Knox have good form but as we all know confidence AND mechanics make you a good shooter. I'd also fit taking good shots into that equation.
League wise, again IMHO, Kyrie Irving has the prettiest jumper both long range and midrange. Great release, footwork and rotation, excellent form and almost perfect verticality.
Who is the best "pure" 3 point shooter? I like the Curry Brothers but also Joe Harris, KD and Bogdon Bogdanovic. In fact Brooklyn with KD, Irving, Harden AND Joe Harris are the most fearsome 3 point shooting team in the league. When all or most of them is playing.
So what do we need? A pure shooter or a pure scorer? I go with scorer. Steve Novack was a great shooter and his presence helped but he was never an even good scorer. The Knicks desperately need a creative 20 PPG + scorer who is at least a decent shooter and can create his own offense. Add Norman Powell AND Colin Sexton, keep Burks and Rose, and the Knicks move to the next level. I'd love to get a superstar type talent but watching Kawhi and Irving go down in the playoffs makes me think distributed scoring and a very deep bench might be the way to go. Besides adding second tier star talents like Powell and Sexton is way cheaper than going after Beal or Lillard. If we play our cards right the OTHER Luka becomes a free agent in 2023 and word is things aren't too much fun in Big D.
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Jun 17, 2021 14:18:59 GMT -5
I like Powel alot,I hear he is of great character that is the type of vet we need,he can move has hops play bigger than his size and he is a consistent shooter which is exactly what we need.I also love Trent for us since I am letting Bullock and Burts leave these two would be huge upgrade .Now we need a stretch big who can open the middle by bringing his defender out because of three shooting ability,Kelly Olynyk would be perfect.
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jun 17, 2021 15:46:40 GMT -5
I like Powel alot,I hear he is of great character that is the type of vet we need,he can move has hops play bigger than his size and he is a consistent shooter which is exactly what we need.I also love Trent for us since I am letting Bullock and Burts leave these two would be huge upgrade .Now we need a stretch big who can open the middle by bringing his defender out because of three shooting ability,Kelly Olynyk would be perfect. Really nice suggestions. Kelly Olynyk while not a groundbreaking big can provide the floor spacing as a stretch 5 that always kills when we play a team he's on. Good on Boston and Miami. Gary Trent Jr got traded for Powell so either of those two would be good but I like Gary Trent Jr's motor and desire to be better. I watched when the Raptors played us earlier this year in Tampa and he went off. I was watching the Raptors feed and he said he wants to take the next step and become a star player. Players domt say that unless they WANT TO back it up so I loved that about him. I can't wait until free agency and the draft. We have so many assets to play with not to mention our former agents in Wes and Rose with possibly the inside track. |
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 20, 2021 9:49:00 GMT -5
Some thoughts.
Kelly Olynk shot 34% from beyond the 3 point line last season and is an average 36% for his career. We might find a better shooting stretch player. Like Luke Kornet. I do wholeheartedly agree another big, preferably one who can shoot, would be useful though it looks like the draft won't produce this kind of player for the Knicks.
Let's not dismiss the value of Alec Burks or Reggie Bullock so fast. Both were enormously effective for the Knicks last season and while Bullock may be expendable I think the trio of DRose, IQ and Burks off the bench was an explosive combo that played very well together.
How much cap flexibility does Miami have? They have over 60 million committed to Butler and Adebayo. Nunn and Robinson make less than 10 million between them and I would believe both are more valuable to the Heat because they have reasonable salaries, they know the Heat system and they produce within that system. I do think Miami would match any offer to both these guys simply for their value to the team. Now if Dame or Beal becomes available certainly almost anybody is available for a trade but the simple fact is the Heat won't let Robinson or Nunn go for nothing. They could be traded but they won't be given away. The big question is Victor Oladipo. Do the Heat stay or do they go? If it's me it's a pass.
The more I read the rumor mills the more it looks like Lowry and DeRozan might be the Knicks targets in free agency. I'm not overwhelmed by this possibility given how many aging star type players went out with injuries this playoff season. Certainly both make the Knicks better but championship better? I don't think so but IF they can stay healthy the Knicks scoring would be much better. The other strong possibility is Lonzo Ball. I'm slowly warming up to this notion as long as the Knicks add a scoring threat too.
What remains so exciting for me is that at ALL levels of the off season the Knicks have numerous options be it the draft, the free agent market or through trades. ALL things are possible and the Knicks are right in the middle of it all. This summer will be a HUGE test of our management team.
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Post by ReneNYG1 on Jun 20, 2021 10:02:13 GMT -5
Bill,
36% career to open the floor is fine it's not like I want him to take that many shots just the thread is enough to open floor and Kelly does other things better than Kornet like rebounding 2.4 career and he shoots 32% career, while Kelly is 36% 5.1 reb career but this year 82% from the line 7 reb 2.9 assits .6 blks 1.1 steals 13.5 pts he fills the box scores. Granted neither are ideal rebounders which I would also want in backup but if your outside more your prone to get less.
Jason,
Trent is strong too,he has a strong body so it would fit what we are trying to be a strong team and not get push around.I also like to get guys that you can see improving to another level and I think Trent could be a budding star with better coaching and improvement. Signing Trent and Powell will make me forget Bullock and Burt who both did great for us,but I think we would get better and younger.-
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Post by irish2u2 on Jun 20, 2021 10:33:15 GMT -5
BTW, I'm on the fence about Gary Trent, Jr. Not a very explosive athlete though he does have good SG size. He can hit treys and he is very offensively precocious but does he do anything else? His rebounding, assist and steals numbers are average at best. I like his age and he's a smart kid but don't we already have a kid like him only taller and much better rounded? That RJ guy...
I want the Knicks to get more athletic. Gary Trent, Jr. doesn't really push that button and frankly if he replaces Burks or Bullock I think it's a step back. BUT.... I have been wrong before and skills beat athleticism (see Luka Doncic) plus I trust our management. Sort of. They didn't make a play for Christian Wood last summer and that was a huge mistake.
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jun 20, 2021 12:17:10 GMT -5
Bill, 36% career to open the floor is fine it's not like I want him to take that many shots just the thread is enough to open floor and Kelly does other things better than Kornet like rebounding 2.4 career and he shoots 32% career, while Kelly is 36% 5.1 reb career but this year 82% from the line 7 reb 2.9 assits .6 blks 1.1 steals 13.5 pts he fills the box scores. Granted neither are ideal rebounders which I would also want in backup but if your outside more your prone to get less. Jason, Trent is strong too,he has a strong body so it would fit what we are trying to be a strong team and not get push around.I also like to get guys that you can see improving to another level and I think Trent could be a budding star with better coaching and improvement. Signing Trent and Powell will make me forget Bullock and Burt who both did great for us,but I think we would get better and younger.- I think you understood where I was coming from. I wasn't looking to make him a 25 mpg starter but a side veteran role player that can pull out the hustle on the offensive boards and the perimeter jumper when Randle or Obi gets double teamed. This is also contingent on what we do with Noel and Mitch. |
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Post by jbnewyork162 on Jun 20, 2021 12:38:52 GMT -5
BTW, I'm on the fence about Gary Trent, Jr. Not a very explosive athlete though he does have good SG size. He can hit treys and he is very offensively precocious but does he do anything else? His rebounding, assist and steals numbers are average at best. I like his age and he's a smart kid but don't we already have a kid like him only taller and much better rounded? That RJ guy...
I want the Knicks to get more athletic. Gary Trent, Jr. doesn't really push that button and frankly if he replaces Burks or Bullock I think it's a step back. BUT.... I have been wrong before and skills beat athleticism (see Luka Doncic) plus I trust our management. Sort of. They didn't make a play for Christian Wood last summer and that was a huge mistake. If we had this guy backing up RJ and/or allowing RJ to move to the 3 I'm not going to be mad at all. There's only so much the Stat sheets show about a player. There are things that I look out for that like the clutch game, the ability to overachieve and create your own shot(which Trent can), someone that can take pressure off of better players. He's one of those players and is so young he is not completely what he will be. Here is a mix of defensive, offensive and and plenty more athletic than Burks or Bullock. Although, I feel whether we go Powell, Duncan Robinson or Gary Trent Jr, they can be added to Burks and Bullock. Last film talks about how tough, clutch and good he is in the passing lanes: |
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Both are average athletes and I want the Knicks to improve their athleticism. I too want to improve the Knicks overall talent. 
